From The Mailbag; “Pastor, Your Hating Is Not Nice”

Sometimes the comments I receive are worthy of being picked apart. I received one of those a couple days ago. This person is complaining about my post “Andrew Sandlin and Cultural Homosexualization.” So, if you need more context to understand this post you might want to go back and read that post.

Bradley wrote,

From here on out I will strive to work on my personal animus toward homosexuals. Let’s see: that means that first I need to find out what all my associates, acquaintances and colleagues do in the bedroom, so I can properly direct my animus (or hatred, if you prefer) to the correct recipient.

Bret responds,

1.) It is interesting that in using the word “Homosexual” you are using the soft word that was coined in order to avoid using the word “sodomite.”

2.) Bradley, clearly you did not read my post to begin your tirade in this way. Our problem is not one of having to go out of our way in identifying sodomites. Have you missed the reality that the sodomites are going out of their way to shove their perversity in your face and the face of our children? Have you missed the “Queer Story Time Phenomenon?” Have you missed the “Sodomite-Pride Parades?” Have you missed the pending legislation in the US House which would criminalize churches for having standards that exclude sodomites as members? This idea that I am advocating that we go on a sodomite hunt to out all those in the closet is just a red-herring on your part in order to shift attention from the point at hand.

3.) Next, you’ll have to take my attitude towards public sodomites who want to change our social order to allow for their wretched lifestyle up with the Apostle Paul who himself talked about how this behavior was worthy of death and who called sodomites out in Romans 1.

4,) You will excuse me for noticing the irony in your willingness to condemn me for my hatred of God’s enemies while at the same time your animus (hatred?) towards me is only thinly veiled. So …. hatred for Gods enemies is wrong but hatred for those who hate God’s enemies is fine? Et tu Bradley?

Bradley wrote,

Meanwhile I guess I will refrain for now from harboring any personal animus toward the serial polygamists among us who abandon their own children in favor of a new sex partner, or those who torture small animals.

Bret responds,

1.) This is a distraction from the point at hand.

2.) You seem to be saying that since I didn’t write a column condemning;

a.) Serial polygamists who abandon their children in favor of a new sex partner,
b.) People who torture small animals

Therefore I am not allowed to write a column condemning sodomites. However, if you scan Iron Ink you can find articles condemning serial polygamy. I can’t say everything in one article Bradley. The article you are complaining about was dealing with Andrew Sandlin and his torpidity concerning sodomy and culture. As Andrew didn’t deal with serial polygamist or puppy torturers I didn’t deal with those issues either. However, you can be sure if Andrew writes anything that seems to favor serial polygamy or puppy torturing I will be all over it.

And just for the record … I think puppy torturers are sick and serial polygamists even more sick. And yes… I hate them.

Bradley wrote,

Is this what Christianity is all about? Keeping a list of all those kinds of people we hate?

Bret responds,

Jeepers Bradley if Scripture tells me to “hate that which is evil but cling to that which is good,” I figure that having some idea of what I hate is necessary even if I don’t go as far as keeping lists. Now mind you, if people need lists to remember what it is they need to hate, I’m all for lists.

But there is another point under the surface here Bradley that I want to bring to the fore. It is simply the case that hatred serves as the auto-immune system to protect that which I love. If I am to love properly, I need to hate that which is evil since evil exists in order to uproot and destroy what I love. As such, what you so glibly and ignorantly label as hate, mature thinkers understand as the proper action of a well functioning love. If I love God’s definition of the trustee family then it is absolutely necessary for me to hate that which would destroy the trustee family and that which would destroy the trustee family is both sodomy and those who would wring their hands and weep over a proper hatred of that which is in contradiction to a proper oriented love. Not that I’m looking at you or anything.

Bradley writes,

The truth is that the unregenerate world is endlessly capable of rationalizing and approving all sorts of terrible behaviors that are destructive to the world and corrosive to Mankind. Trying to keep track of all the groups of people we are supposed (as Christians) to hate will thus be an endless task. We have to remember that these are the kinds of people that Christ came to save. And such were some of us…

Bret responds,

1.) Dude… it is as easy as falling out of bed in the morning to hate that which is contrary to the holiness of God as revealed in His Word. It is not that hard to hate those who are in love with their hatred of Christ as expressed by the,

a.) Serial polygamist who lives in defiance of Christ,
b.) One who delights in torturing animals (Proverbs 12:10)
c.) Sodomites
d.) Pedophiles
e.) Bestiality practitioners
f.) The greedy and selfish

But again … if you need a list don’t let me stand in the way. There is nothing in Scripture forbidding lists.

2.) It is true that “such were some of us,” however, before we repented of our high-handed sinning the proper attitude of love as from the saints, when we were outside of Christ, was to hate us. You seem to fail to realize Bradley that the evangelical purpose of hate is to communicate that the wrath of God (the outward expression of God’s hatred) is upon those who are in a high-handed mode of hating Christ. We as Christians are showing the very marrow of Christian love when we hate those who are in high hatred of God. This kind of hatred that was serving love is what we see when Christ torched the Pharisees, or when Paul went all “flame on” against the Judaizers in Galatians.

Now, of course when a Christ-hater seeking God, because God is seeking them, comes in our path, then the love we demonstrate is going to be of a different quality. It is going to look like how Jesus dealt with the woman at the well in John 4 or how Jesus dealt with the Rich Young Ruler. In those cases Jesus was patient, yet firm. He didn’t let them off the hook of their sin and yet he was compassionate in dealing with their questions. In our culture he may have even bought them coffee and desert while dealing with their questions. He may well have had them over to his home.

However, for high-handed sodomite Christ haters seeking to roll God off His throne the wrath of the Son would now explode on them as it exploded on those kinds of enemies in the 1st century.

3,) Honestly, as I read between the lines my sense is that you desire to avoid confrontation and you just want to sentimentalize Christ haters into the Kingdom. I’m guessing here but I’d bet that you see evangelism as cheerfully providing donuts for those marching in the sodomite pride parade. In the end you and I have a different definition of both “hate,” and “love.”

Bradley wrote,

When Paul addressed the philosophers on Mars Hill, in a culture where a particularly destructive form of homosexuality was practiced (i.e., pederasty), he didn’t spend any time excoriating them for that immorality.

Bret responds

LOL … are we forgetting Romans 1 Bradley? The same St. Paul on Mars Hill wrote Romans 1 saying,

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [d]suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is [e]manifest [f]in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [g]Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like [h]corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their [i]women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [j]men, leaving the natural use of the [k]woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [l]sexual immorality, wickedness, [m]covetousness, [n]maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 [o]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [p]unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Bradley writes,

Essentially his one big question (in a roundabout way) was, “Whom do you say that Jesus is?” However, in his letters to the churches he made it clear in no uncertain terms that believers themselves are not to practice the immorality of the Greeks.

But the Greeks will do what the Greeks will do, unless and until the regenerative power of the Spirit works in and amongst them.

Bret responds,

1.) LOL … and until the Greeks are regenerated we are to allow them to corrupt our children, expand their perversity, and publish their filth? Are you high?

2.) I say that Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that all the wicked must now kiss the Son lest the Son be angry and they perish in their way.

Bradley wrote,

Hating them for it doesn’t appear to be a fruitful endeavor. It takes a lot of emotional energy that could be better expended elsewhere.

Bret responds,

1.) Hating them keeps me warm at night during these cold Michigan winters. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist co-opting a quote from the film, “Red Dawn.”)

2.) As my hating is an expression of my love of God (as imperfect as that love is) I’ll go on hating. You can go on serving coffee and donuts at the Sodomite Pride parade in order expend your energy and to show your love.


Author: jetbrane

I am a Pastor of a small Church in Mid-Michigan who delights in my family, my congregation and my calling. I am postmillennial in my eschatology. Paedo-Calvinist Covenantal in my Christianity Reformed in my Soteriology Presuppositional in my apologetics Familialist in my family theology Agrarian in my regional community social order belief Christianity creates culture and so Christendom in my national social order belief Mythic-Poetic / Grammatical Historical in my Hermeneutic Pre-modern, Medieval, & Feudal before Enlightenment, modernity, & postmodern Reconstructionist / Theonomic in my Worldview One part paleo-conservative / one part micro Libertarian in my politics Systematic and Biblical theology need one another but Systematics has pride of place Some of my favorite authors, Augustine, Turretin, Calvin, Tolkien, Chesterton, Nock, Tozer, Dabney, Bavinck, Wodehouse, Rushdoony, Bahnsen, Schaeffer, C. Van Til, H. Van Til, G. H. Clark, C. Dawson, H. Berman, R. Nash, C. G. Singer, R. Kipling, G. North, J. Edwards, S. Foote, F. Hayek, O. Guiness, J. Witte, M. Rothbard, Clyde Wilson, Mencken, Lasch, Postman, Gatto, T. Boston, Thomas Brooks, Terry Brooks, C. Hodge, J. Calhoun, Llyod-Jones, T. Sowell, A. McClaren, M. Muggeridge, C. F. H. Henry, F. Swarz, M. Henry, G. Marten, P. Schaff, T. S. Elliott, K. Van Hoozer, K. Gentry, etc. My passion is to write in such a way that the Lord Christ might be pleased. It is my hope that people will be challenged to reconsider what are considered the givens of the current culture. Your biggest help to me dear reader will be to often remind me that God is Sovereign and that all that is, is because it pleases him.

One thought on “From The Mailbag; “Pastor, Your Hating Is Not Nice””

  1. Sodomites, then, are your enemy, and the enemy of your family, no? In such a situation, what does Christ command? “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.” He presses his case even further: “…love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.” Then he points out that such behavior will bring us great reward from the “…Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.”

    I don’t see much wiggle room there, or any exegetical tricks that allows for Orwellian twists of phrase like, “…my hating is an expression of my love for the Lord.”

    I would be willing to wager that, if you pray with just a bit of persistence and ask God to grant you the ability to love sodomites, that he will grant you that ability, because he is a God of mercy who keeps his promises, and surely if he has commanded you to love your enemies, he will grant you the ability to do that. Not that it won’t be difficult: with God all things may be possible, but that doesn’t mean they are easy. No, usually the process is so difficult that it feels like your heart will break and you will likely just die before it’s over.
    Best Regards,

    Bret responds,

    Your problem is that you are defining love differently than I do. I define love as acting towards others consistent with what God’s law teaches. God’s law teaches that sodomy requires the death penalty. You are defining love consistent with some kind of sentimental warm fuzzy. We are in different worlds and will not agree. You don’t think I’m being loving. I think my disposition towards Christ hating sodomite to be the marrow of love. I also think your love is really hatred.

    Of course you have completely ignored the command of Scripture to “hate that which is evil and to cling to that which is good.”

    You also have to deal with the Psalmist who said…”21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

    22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.”

    Now keep in mind that if this is a Messianic Psalm then this is Christ saying this.

    You accuse me of exegetical tricks. Allow me to accuse you of reading the Scripture through your postmodern emotions. Throughout the Scripture we find love being expressed by hatred. we see it in Jesus attacking His enemies. You remember those times … “White washed sepulchers full of dead men’s bones,” and “Your are of your Father the devil,” and “brood of vipers.” Are you really going to tell me that Jesus was not being loving here?

    And what of St. Paul who told his enemies to go castrate themselves?

    Yours is an effeminate Christianity. I want nothing to do with it.

    I would be willing to wager that, if you pray to the God who is and not the god of your imagination and ask the God who is to open your eyes and give you wisdom and the ability to have a love that hates that which is opposed to your love, the God of the Bible who is angular and will never be made smooth, will grant your the ability to understand how a biblical hate serves biblical love.

    Praying that the Spirit of Christ will grant you repentance Brad.

    Respectfully yours,

    Pastor Bret

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