From a online op-ed piece in the Midland Daily News
“After months of work, a report was issued that can be viewed at the Midland Area Community Foundation website. Among the nine Key Performance Areas was this statement on Diversity. “Midland County is committed to equality and inclusion and welcomes, embraces and accepts all people.”
All people. That includes a commitment to not discriminate against anyone based on their heritage or culture, their physical attributes or their station in society. And in our group discussions, it also specifically included a commitment to welcome, embrace and accept anyone regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.”
Bret observes,
This statement is ridiculous. In this statement is the promise to discriminate against those who have a Christian heritage and / or come from a Christian culture that is opposed to sodomy, transgender, lesbianism, necrophilia, bestiality, etc. So the promise by this Midland Michigan group to not discriminate against anyone (Necrophiliacs for example) is a promise to discriminate against Christians since Christians come from a culture and heritage that oppose perverted sexual orientation and disordered gender identity.
This press release is an example of typical Cultural Marxist agenda masking. In the name of tolerance Christian ethics and mores will be discriminated against.
After posting this on the Midland page a sortie of wingnuts came flying at me,
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Lawrence Perry ·Your Christian heritage is not very old. It’s only about 2,000 years old. It’s not even a blink of an eye, as far as human history is concerned. Christianity is based on belief and not evidence. In other words, your Christian heritage and culture doesn’t pass the smell test.
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Bret L. McAteeThat statement is ignorance on stilts Mr. Perry.Christianity has been around since God’s creation. That the Jews abandoned the flowering of their faith when Christ arrived means that Judaism as distinct from Christianity is only 2000 years old. Christianity was the expression of the OT faith come into its own.
Secondly, you are operating with a definition of faith that is existential and not Biblical. The evidence for Christianity is everywhere and the Christian faith is based upon evidence that is far more securely present then exists in scientism or any other religious worldview. In point of fact Christianity is the ONLY religion that has evidence since even the very word “evidence” itself only finds true meaning as existing in a Christian worldview.
Of course I would not expect a pagan Cultural Marxist to say that Christianity does not pass the smell test. What will you tell me next? That nothing supernatural is true?
I’m shocked … shocked I tell you that a Christ hater would say such a thing. LOL.
Next, how old does a belief have to be before it’s credible? Following your “thinking,” the neo-notions of “sodomite rights” and “sodomite marriage” don’t merit even the slightest consideration since they are completely novel ideas in the history of the West. But since you’ve made age the determining factor, then you are obliged to tell us the magic number at which an idea becomes legitimate.
And as for your cherished “smell test,” I should think sodomites should be slow about complaining about smell tests give their predilection of playing in the sewer.
Christianity’s age has nothing to do with whether Christians should be able to exercise their Constitutionally guaranteed protections of freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom if association.
Mr. McAtee
Cultural Marxism is bantied around a lot on White Nationalist blogs/publications i.e. Alternative Right, etc. It’s code word for cultural commie-one who opposes discrimination of a targeted population like gays. -
Bret L. McAteeLori Marshall FransonMore nonsense. Whole books have been written on Cultural Marxism and the Frankfort School from across the ideological spectrum. This is just more special pleading by a Cultural Marxist to dismiss the very weighty criticisms against the school promulgating perversion.
Lori Marshall Franson
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Better luck next time, Rev. Reframing the enemy: “Right-wing ideologues, racists and other extremists have jazzed up political correctness and repackaged it — in its most virulent form, as an anti-Semitic theory that identifies Jews in general and several Jewish intellectuals in particular as nefarious, communistic destroyers. These supposed originators of “cultural Marxism” are seen as conspiratorial plotters intent on making Americans feel guilty and thus subverting their Christian culture.In a nutshell, the theory posits that a tiny group of Jewish philosophers who fled Germany in the 1930s and set up shop at Columbia University in New York City devised an unorthodox form of “Marxism” that took aim at American society’s culture, rather than its economic system.
The theory holds that these self-interested Jews — the so-called “Frankfurt School” of philosophers — planned to try to convince mainstream Americans that white ethnic pride is bad, that sexual liberation is good, and that supposedly traditional American values — Christianity, “family values,” and so on — are reactionary and bigoted. With their core values thus subverted, the theory goes, Americans would be quick to sign on to the ideas of the far left.”
The SPLC supports my position.
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Bret L. McAteeMiss LoriThe SPLC is the largest officially sanctioned hate group in America.
A few books that I’ve read that clearly spell out the origins and return to ancient paganism that Cultural Marxism represents,
http://www.amazon.com/
cry-havoc-ralph-toledano/ dp/B000MOMNQ8 Indeed any familiarity at all with the basics of communism and how the Gramsci school altered the classic Communist trajectory slightly will reveal that Cultural Marxism is nothing more than Marxist-Leninist thinking as applied beyond economics to culture.
You’re simply either wrong or ignorant about the History Mis Lori, or failing that you are merely a cultural Marxist shill. Either way you are certainly gravely mistaken.
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Jeff LiebmannOrdained Minister at Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of MidlandSo to Bret and Rebekah and others, let’s try for moment and stay on topic without bringing in global conspiracies. 100 of the leaders of the County (go to the web site to see the list – this is not in any way a liberal-leaning group – it is mostly business owners) articulated quite clearly the values of our community. Our Representative Gary Glenn seems to disagree and, on top of that, does not care. Marxism and Illuminati aside, the point here is the articulation of our communities’ values and the failure of a politician supposedly committed to them to engage in dialog with his constituents.
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Bret L. McAteeSo … to Jeff Liebmann and others,Let’s try to keep in mind that it is the truth we are after and not pooled ignorance … no, not even the pooled ignorance of the sodomite or businessman community or Unitarian Universalist clergy community. For one thing, many businessmen only care for the dollar. Any historic or Biblical ethic that threatens the dollar will find the businessman dumping the ethic in favor of the God almighty dollar.
The fact that they are supporting your anti-Christ agenda “Rev.” Liebman is proof positive that this is a Liberal (Cultural Marxist) group, or at the very least, useful idiots serving the cultural Marxist agenda. (Which, I’m fairly certain describes the Unitarian Universalist clergy community as well since the Leftist Clergy for Decades have been carrying water for the Marxist agenda. See C. Gregg Singers “The Unholy Alliance.”)
If the Midland community really does value the stripping of Christians of their constitutional standing then that community desperately needs to re-think their “no-value” values.
Gary Glenn was just recently elected by a majority vote. That reality indicates he is listening just fine to his constituents. You’re just bleating because he convincingly defeated you in the last election cycle.
I beg of your Mr. Liebmann. Think of your own soul and the coming judgment day. Please repent.
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I see. So no matter how many community leaders are involved and regardless of who they are, if they disagree with you then they are sodomites and anti-Christ. Perhaps you would like to take that up with Wallace Howard Mayton of Memorial Presbyterian Church who also served on the group. Or Ed Doerr of the Messiah Lutheran Church.
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Bret L. McAtee ·Jeff … one doesn’t come to truth by counting noses. Not even Liberal clergy noses.
Jeff LiebmannOrdained Minister at Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Midland
Oh please, please call Messiah Lutheran and tell Ed that he is a liberal clergy. Before you type another word, you really owe it to yourself to learn how absurd that statement is.
Bret L. McAteeJeff,Anybody who accepts this idea is, prima facie, LIBERAL. It is a liberal position that is contrary to God’s word which condemns sodomy repeatedly throughout the Scriptures. (Scripture … remember those? God’s authoritative word and all that?)Now, all because they are not as far left as you are doesn’t mean they are not left. Come on Jeff … you can not possibly be this dense.
Rev McAtee: Thanks for the resources. You may want to alert the FBI about the Southern Poverty Law Center, an outreach partner of the FBI on dangerous hate groups.
Bret L. McAteeLOL … you find it surprising that our Marxist government is in bed with the Marxist Hate group SPLC? Our Federal Government’s incompetency is so legendary that for them to align themselves with anybody hints at the fact that there is a serious problem with those they are aligned.
Ordained Minister at Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of MidlandContrary to YOUR interpretation of YOUR god’s word. America is not a theocracy, even if you would like it to be so. I shudder to think what denomination you affiliate with if you consider a Missouri Synod Lutheran minister liberal. Perhaps you would care to share.America is a Theocracy Jeff. All governments are. Every single one. The name of America’s God is “Demos” and He rules with an iron fist. His law is legal positivism.Do keep up friend Jeff.And Liberals exist in every denomination Jeff. A minister’s position in supporting sodomy is proof the man is Liberal. God condemns sodomy repeatedly.
The good news is that upon repentance and leaving sodomy God in Christ will forgive and restore them.
Jeff LiebmannOrdained Minister at Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of MidlandIf it helps you sleep at night, good for you. But willful ignorance does not equal truth.
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Bret L. McAteeSays the man who ignores God’s clear revelation on this matter.
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Lori Marshall FransonRev McAtee: You seem awfully focused on sodomy, sir. Do you equally focus on gluttony and the lack of males having beards? In short, I think you cherry pick what you want from the Bible and use it to justify your desires to discriminate against others and weave conspiracies, which is your right to the point where your views adversely affect others in this wonderful melting pot of a country without a National Religion.I cannot help but wonder what branding you would like those who are gay to have to alert others who share your views so they can refuse them service in restaurants, stores, etc.
I sure don’t see you sharing any of the Good News regarding the gospel on here for anyone nor do I recognize you as a spokesman for all Christians. Things such as arrogance, pride, a haughty spirit, bearing false witness/ lies, and sowing discord amongst brethren escapes your writings and message as a Reverend on here. I like to look at the fruits one bears before following them. On that note, I think I’ll listen to the Austin City Lounge Lizards, “Jesus Loves Me but He can’t Stand You”. Good day, sir.
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Bret L. McAteeLori Marshall Franson,Typical Liberal response.
The article is what focused on sodomy Maam. See this quote here,
“All people. That includes a commitment to not discriminate against anyone based on their heritage or culture, their physical attributes or their station in society. And in our group discussions, it also specifically included a commitment to welcome, embrace and accept anyone regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.”
Did you somehow miss that detail? As such I’m merely responding to the articles focus by keeping the focus where the article places it.
And as I said initially, this is really an article dedicated to discriminating Christians. I said that here,
“This is ridiculous. In this statement is the promise to discriminate against those who have a Christian heritage and / or come from a Christian culture or have a Christian Heritage that are opposed to sodomy, transgender, lesbianism, necrophilia, bestiality, etc. So the promise to not discriminate against anyone (Necrophiliacs for example) is a promise to discriminate against Christians. “
You folks are the one forcing your paganistic religion on those who disagree with you. Typical Liberal “freedom. Liberals don’t care what you do, so long as they can use to State to make it compulsory.
In terms of gluttony
1.) Unlike sodomy Scripture while labeling gluttony as a “sin” nowhere designates it as a crime.
2.) You can be sure when organizations arise insisting that I must accept the gluttonous as “normal” and must give them special civil rights I will respond similarly. However, it is simply the case that the sodomy issue is front and center because you Cultural Marxists who love Government power are trying to force Christians to accept your perversion as normal.
You so foolishly talk about “branding,” and yet what the Cultural Marxists are seeking to do is to jam Christians into the closet that the Liberals have the sodomites coming out of. You pretend you’re so “broad-minded,” but face it … you hate Biblical Christians, want to strip them of their constitutional gurantees and want them to shut up. As we’ve seen here you want to give sodomites Constitutional special consideration while stripping Christians of our Constitutional free speech, freedom of associations, and other Constitutional protections.
In terms of your final paragraph of pique … Whatever (shrug).
I understand that. My question was whether you equally focus on gluttony or males not having beards (might want to realize that picture of you is posted). Sir, I am not gay. I happened to stumble across your kind and the fruits bared when I was caring for those dying of AIDS at the bedside in the 1980s. I don’t hate you, sir, so you won’t have to play that victim card. I think Christians ought to remember the teachings of Christ, such as loving one’s neighbor. I also think you need to keep talking, it is what demonstrates that fruit I was speaking about earlier and there is some interpretation about what a “biblical” Christian is. I certainly don’t want you or your ilk legally being able to discriminate against others. You know, I don’t recall Christ hanging around with the sanctimonious. Until you are without sin , you can keep those stones for your rock garden. -
Bret L. McAteeLori Marshall FransonHow much more plainly can I put things? I don’t equally focus on gluttony or males not having beards because gluttons or males not having beards are not demanding the special constitutional privileges that sodomites are demanding. Though, you can be sure I have written on assorted sins including gluttony. When gluttons start insisting on special constitutional privileges you can be sure I will zero in on that. You are firing blanks when you keep trying to make this association.
I have no problem admitting that I am wrong when I am wrong. I do not try to say that my sins are not sins, which is exactly what the sodomite and their “friends” who champion their cause do. When is the last time you called upon someone besides someone you perceive to be a glutton to repent? The fact is that it is not my putative gluttony that makes you so self righteous but rather my pointing out to you over and over again how utterly silly your reasoning is.
And the point of fact is you are a hater. You hate God by being in favor and trying to normalize what He is opposed to. You are a victimizer in the worst sense. You victimize those you say you love by suggesting that their aberrant behavior is good.Thank you for the reminder to love one’s neighbor. You might want to learn that love is not defined however Lori wants it defined. Here you are hating on the perverts by telling them that which terribly shortens their expected life span is acceptable. You call that love? By all that is Holy, please do not ever practice your love on me.And remember Lori … you are the one advocating that discrimination against Christians and their heritage and culture should be acceptable. You are the hater here Lori.
Lori Marshall FransonNo sir, you have that backwards; however, I’m not surprised at the cognitive incongruence and projection. It is you who are demonstrating hatred. Hatred toward your fellow man by wanting gays to be categorized as subhuman and discriminated against under the cloak of religious freedom. I think some in the South used that argument to deny service to those who are African Americans. The lifespans of those who are homosexual are related to a variety of factors such as failure to get screened for illness secondary to stigma, access to healthcare disparities, whether one is monogamous, nutritional status, socioeconomic factors, etc. Quite frankly, I’m more concerned about the number of children unvaccinated in your congregation against vaccine preventable infectious diseases since you are clearly so paranoid and conspiracy driven . Since you’ve been mentioning perverts, I feel it only fair to let you know that I consider those of your yoke to pervert Christianity- If it were up to me, you’d be required to work a soup kitchen in Haight Ashbury to gain some humanity, humility, mercy, and perspective. Might want to eliminate the part about me hating God, sir. You do not have the capacity to define Hate or define anything related to God. In short, I think you’re a charlatan . Again, use those stones for your rock garden, sir.LOL … see, another example of Lori, the cultural Marxist wanting to use the government to force people to vaccinate their children when tons of evidence exist that vaccines are toxic.And it will do no good for me to work soup kitchens in Haight Ashbury since I’ve already worked them in third world countries on other continents. Have you broken sadza with the poor in the high density suburbs outside of Harare? Have you ministered to the poor and indigent in their cardboard and tin houses? Have you preached Christ crucified in their hut Churches while chicken and other livestock milled about the Church?Don’t pretend to preach to me about your nobility while assuming the absolute worse about me. I know that upsets your precious paradigm. Have you sat with the indigent dying in the hospital while they die of cancer? Have you sat with and sought to comfort the teen parents whose babies have died of terrible diseases? You don’t know what you’re talking about (again) when you hint that I’ve been born with some kind of silver spoon in my mouth. I’ve been there and done that and I tell you again that you are a hater of these people by your refusal to champion God’s authoritative word.
See … you just continue to exhibit that you don’t know what you’re talking about. You keep making these huge leaps and they are supported by exactly nothing.
You complain about rock throwing and yet you and your ilk are the ones who started casting the rocks. You cast rocks at those who upheld a Western Civilization and Biblical ethic. You cast stones at those who took up the cause of the unborn. You are a rock thrower extraordinaire and yet in true terrorist fashion you seek to escape your rock throwing by wheeling upon me and pointing and screaming “ROCK-THROWER,” in order to throw the scent off of your own culpability in casting stones.
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Thanks Bret for this edifying back and forth. I sometimes need reminding about how easy it is to slip away into the “Lot mindset” of sitting at the gate with the enemies of God. Plus, I must confess, I do love a good sarcastic razor sharp rebuttal. Its the kind of thing I always wish I could say but the words never arrive in the moment.
Bret,
Thanks so much for standing up to the P.C. bullies. It’s so rare these days to see a Christian man stand his ground with courage and conviction. You set an example for us all.
Great job, brother. Would to God all his ministers stood up for the truth in this way.
Have you ever heard a Christian pastor say, “Don’t win the argument, win the person”?
Something seems a little awry with that little ditty.
Or maybe the Christian pastor was thinking of marital arguments.
Speaking for myself, if someone presents the better substantive argument, then they’ve won me over.
Hello TUAD … good to see you around. Been missing seeing you.
If I ever heard someone say “Don’t win the argument, win the person,” I would immediately walk away for fear of saying something unnecessarily insulting.