McAtee Contra Wilson On Flogging Baptists Who Subscribe to Baptist Theology

Doug Wilson wrote a piece entitled “That Time Virginia Flogged A Baptist,” and in that Piece Pope Doug I argues that it was wrong for the Virginia authorities to flog the Baptist. To which I reply… “Bologna.”
Why would it be wrong for God’s Magistrate to flog a person who was advocating that the public square, by consent of the laws and the Magistrates, should allow into the public square spokesmen of every God and every religion? Why is it wrong to flog somebody for teaching that the Magistrate must serve all gods in an “even-handed way” as opposed to serving the God of the Bible by not allowing advocates of other religions and gods into the public square?

Doug argues that according to Biblical standards it was wrong to flog. However, the Magistrate, Encrease Nowell, in the illustration that Wilson runs with his article (an illustration of a different Baptist being flogged roughly a century prior) told that Baptist (Obadiah Holmes) that he was being flogged because;

“ … it is for your error and going about to seduce the people,”

In this case the Magistrates were following God’s standard as expressed in the original Westminster Confession;

III. The civil magistrate may not assume to himself the administration of the Word and sacraments, or the power of the keys of the kingdom of heaven:464 yet he has authority, and it is his duty, to take order that unity and peace be preserved in the Church, that the truth of God be kept pure and entire, that all blasphemies and heresies be suppressed, all corruptions and abuses in worship and discipline prevented or reformed, and all the ordainances of God duly settled, administrated, and observed.465

Wilson is just wrong in saying that it was wrong for the Virginian Magistrates a century later to flog yet another Baptist. In point of fact any religionist, like Pope Doug I who advocates the traditionally endarkenment line that the public square should be a place where all the gods are treated even-handedly should be flogged. That Baptist minister was advocating that Jesus Christ alone should not be prioritized in the public square and for that it was just, as according to God’s Word, for him to be flogged in the public square.

Look folks, the classical Liberalism that Wilson is championing is dead. It could prosper the way it did because the public square it created — a public square that was a safe place for all the gods — found the only gods in the 18th century in the American colonies being some kind of version of the Christian God being advocated. Even then though, Baptist thinking was creating a portal through which eventually other gods that were alien to Christianity would be treated in the same even handed manner. Because of Baptist theology the god of the Mormons, the god of Islam, the god of the Talmudists, the god of the Hindus are gods who are now free to walk in the public square.

Could it be that Magistrates in the 17th and 18th century understood the implications of Baptist Christianity better than Doug Wilson does today? Perhaps those Magistrates from long ago understood the danger of Baptist theology to the idea of a Christian Nation. Perhaps those Magistrates from long ago understood the danger that Baptist theology is to a distinctly Christian social order? I mean, if Roger Williams is sending a searing letter in defense of Obadiah Holmes orthodox Reformed people ought to reason that if Roger Williams is against the flogging of Obadiah Holmes that is a good reason to be for it.

It was because our Fathers didn’t keep flogging Baptist ministers in a good Christ honoring way that we are now in the place where Baptists officially champion the right of the followers of Allah to build a mosque by filing an Amicus Brief with the courts in Muslim group’s favor.

So, here’s a vote to keep flogging Baptists until they give up on the freedom of all religions to occupy the public square. This is not freedom at all for the Christian because it takes away the freedom of the Christian to have Jesus Christ alone named as King of the public square and forces Christians to abide with false gods claiming equality in sovereignty with the God of the Bible.

We are where we are in America because Roger Williams Baptist thinking won the day. Because of that we are on the edge of a time where only people who say that Jesus Christ is Lord of the public square are the ones who are now going to be flogged.

I wonder if Doug will put a good word in for us when that time comes?

Author: jetbrane

I am a Pastor of a small Church in Mid-Michigan who delights in my family, my congregation and my calling. I am postmillennial in my eschatology. Paedo-Calvinist Covenantal in my Christianity Reformed in my Soteriology Presuppositional in my apologetics Familialist in my family theology Agrarian in my regional community social order belief Christianity creates culture and so Christendom in my national social order belief Mythic-Poetic / Grammatical Historical in my Hermeneutic Pre-modern, Medieval, & Feudal before Enlightenment, modernity, & postmodern Reconstructionist / Theonomic in my Worldview One part paleo-conservative / one part micro Libertarian in my politics Systematic and Biblical theology need one another but Systematics has pride of place Some of my favorite authors, Augustine, Turretin, Calvin, Tolkien, Chesterton, Nock, Tozer, Dabney, Bavinck, Wodehouse, Rushdoony, Bahnsen, Schaeffer, C. Van Til, H. Van Til, G. H. Clark, C. Dawson, H. Berman, R. Nash, C. G. Singer, R. Kipling, G. North, J. Edwards, S. Foote, F. Hayek, O. Guiness, J. Witte, M. Rothbard, Clyde Wilson, Mencken, Lasch, Postman, Gatto, T. Boston, Thomas Brooks, Terry Brooks, C. Hodge, J. Calhoun, Llyod-Jones, T. Sowell, A. McClaren, M. Muggeridge, C. F. H. Henry, F. Swarz, M. Henry, G. Marten, P. Schaff, T. S. Elliott, K. Van Hoozer, K. Gentry, etc. My passion is to write in such a way that the Lord Christ might be pleased. It is my hope that people will be challenged to reconsider what are considered the givens of the current culture. Your biggest help to me dear reader will be to often remind me that God is Sovereign and that all that is, is because it pleases him.

3 thoughts on “McAtee Contra Wilson On Flogging Baptists Who Subscribe to Baptist Theology”

  1. > It was because our Fathers didn’t keep flogging Baptist ministers in a good Christ honoring way

    My pastor (reformed Evangelical, background Brethren) said that the Reformed Church has historically been in error, when I have tried to make arguments based on Westminster.

    Just like Doug, he uses out the what would Jesus think argument. However, I’m not to sure that their Jesus would say and do many things that are in the Gospels. Carrying swords, using a whip in the Temple, “justifying” centurions

    Reply

  2. “a public square that was a safe place for all the gods — found the only gods in the 18th century in the American colonies being some kind of version of the Christian God being advocated.”

    I’ve briefly perused your site and see how critical you are towards all sorts of things. I wonder if you have read Gary North’s free e-book on the American Founding. Given your theonomy, the American founding really ought not speak to you.

    Given how narrowly you understand “Christianity” to be, I think your above statement is in error. You don’t believe in a broad definition (i.e., “some kind of version”) of “Christianity.”

    America’s founders, including Calvinist Presbyterians like Witherspoon and Sherman were much more like R. Williams and Locke than you are.

    None of the principle authors of America’s DOI were Trinitarians. And none of the first six Presidents, with the exception of John Q. Adams during certain parts of his life were provably Trinitarians either. Jefferson and J. Adams bitterly mocked the Trinity and Incarnation.

    Reply

    1. Jon Rowe writes,

      I’ve briefly perused your site and see how critical you are towards all sorts of things. I wonder if you have read Gary North’s free e-book on the American Founding. Given your theonomy, the American founding really ought not speak to you.

      Bret responds,

      Yes, I’ve read North on the American founding and you’ll not be surprised that I don’t agree with him. I prefer his Father-in-laws work on the founding of America. While I agree w/ North that there was no authority to overthrow the Articles of Confederation I do no agree with North’s implicit suggestion that the Constitution was an Enlightenment document.

      JR writes,

      Given how narrowly you understand “Christianity” to be, I think your above statement is in error. You don’t believe in a broad definition (i.e., “some kind of version”) of “Christianity.”

      BLM replies,

      I understand Christianity consistent with the way God understands Christianity and of course people are forever accusing God of being narrow.

      And your opinion of my understanding of Christianity is just that … your opinion. My position is that many people (Baptists, Lutherans, Wesleyans, Pentecostals) can be and doubtless are Christians who have theology that is abysmal. As I put it, they know Christ in a strange way. And like Apollos in the NT they have need to be shown the way more better. Sanctification in theology is a process for all of us and it is my prayer that those Christians among the Baptists, Lutherans, Wesleyans, Pentecostals, Reformed and myself will grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Further, I believe that I should be challenging people where their theology doesn’t match their Christianity. Apparently you are just as narrow as I as I find you here challenging me.

      Let the games begin.

      JR writes,

      America’s founders, including Calvinist Presbyterians like Witherspoon and Sherman were much more like R. Williams and Locke than you are.

      BLM responds,

      Nonsense. You name a couple chaps but fail to look into the state conventions that ratified the Constitution to see what was said there. I’ve delved into those state ratifying conventions. Have you? Witherspoon’s Scottish Common Sense realism was a problem but to suggest that Witherspoon would be comfortable with where the Church is today on these issues is just lunacy.

      By the way … you should give Gary T. Amos’s “Defending the Declaration” a spin. It might alter your worldview.

      JR writes,

      None of the principle authors of America’s DOI were Trinitarians. And none of the first six Presidents, with the exception of John Q. Adams during certain parts of his life were provably Trinitarians either. Jefferson and J. Adams bitterly mocked the Trinity and Incarnation.

      BLM responds,

      So?

      Go read “The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States” by Benjamin F. Morris
      Go read “The Genevan Reformation and the American Founding” by David W. Hall

      Then come back and I’ll give you a few more red pills to swallow.

      Reply

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