Are The Ogden Lads Really That Adamantly Opposed To The Post-War Consensus?

Additionally, you have recommended John Weaver on multiple occasions as a resource members of the church should look to. There are views which we will absolutely not tolerate within the church. One of those views includes the forbidding of so-called interracial marriages, or kinism, characterizing so-called interracial marriages as sinful, even adulterous. Due to this, we will not tolerate John Weaver to be recommended to anyone in the congregation and will, if necessary, publicly warn the church against his ministry and materials.

The Elders of Refuge Church
Ogden, Utah
Letter to Disaffected Member
Circa 2021

1.) I cite this letter because I get the sense that at times the Ogden chaps want to present themselves as somehow distinct from Doug Wilson on this issue “Kinism” and are providing an alternative. If they are distinct from Doug it would be a matter of merely degrees and not of substance.

Here we are left wondering if the Ogden chaps, like Doug, are practicing a type of conservatism that Dabney once wrote of;

“American conservatism is merely the shadow that follows Radicalism as it moves forward towards perdition. It remains behind it, but never retards it, and always advances near its leader. . . . Its impotency is not hard, indeed, to explain. It is worthless because it is the conservatism of expediency only, and not of sturdy principle. It intends to risk nothing serious for the sake of the truth, and has no idea of being guilty of the folly of martyrdom.”

2.) Note the phraseology “so called interracial marriages.” This would seem to mean that the Ogden chaps don’t believe that interracial marriages are possible and it strikes me that could only be possible if there is a implicit denial of the reality of race here. Why are interracial marriages only “so-called?” Hey Ogden fellows; Are such marriages people of two different races genuinely interracial or are they not “interracial?” And if they are not interracial … then pray tell why not?

3.) In this quote above the Ogden boys commit the same tomfoolery as their arch-enemy Doug Wilson does inasmuch as they both are giving a very narrow definition of Kinism. There are many Kinists who don’t say all interracial marriages are sinful though they may well consider many of them as sinful and most of them as unwise. That such a Kinist view is seen as outrageous is testimony to how liberal the Ogden boys are on this subject, for such a view was, before 1950 or so, the position of nearly all of Christendom. See the two anthology books … “Who Is My Neighbor,” and “A Survey of Racialism in the Christian Tradition.”

The quotes in these books vary. Some are less racially charged, and others more. There are writings that are often about the unity of all races (in their calling to follow Christ) but yet distinguish by race. Some of these make very clear distinctions even between what we can now understand and define as ethnicity (a select stock of descent; Irish versus Breton), nation (a body of members derived from the same ethnicity), country (a collection of members either of closely related ethnicities or of one ethnicity), and race (a broad grouping categorized by a general descent, especially as defined by continental region). Saint Isidore of Seville goes so far as to include the prohibition of miscegenation under the natural rights of nations.

Before 1950 or so, no one would have labeled someone who said that miscegenation is sinful as being beyond the pale of the Christian faith. Yet here is the Ogden group … a group who style themselves as reaching back to champion an older Christianity staining someone as upright as John Weaver trying to make him persona non-grata. This highhandedness is neither Christian nor conservative. It makes one wonder if the Ogden chaps are, like so many other clergy, just playing the tune that they think will resonate with their audience.

4.) When Weaver, and Rushdoony before him, talked about interracial marriages being “adulterous” they were pointing to a legitimate meaning of the word “adultery.” The word “Adultery” also retained the meaning of “to water down.” When someone mixes whiskey with water they are adulterating the whiskey. When someone mixes blue paint and yellow paint they are adulterating both the blue paint and the yellow paint. And when a Japanese marries a Cherokee they are each adulterating their races. This is not a controversial statement. It is an objective fact. So, when Weaver, or Rushdoony makes the statement about interracial marriages being adulterous they are really merely proclaiming a tautology.

5.) I know John Weaver a wee bit. I have good friends who know John Weaver very well. For anybody to indict John Weaver like this is just unconscionable and I take more than a little umbrage at this.

6.) I must tell you also that I find this correspondence very Doug Wilson like in tone. I mean who are they to tell people who they can or cannot read? Now, as a Pastor, if I know someone is pushing views that I believe are contrary to Biblical Christianity I may write a blog post or preach a sermon exposing the problems as compared to Scripture but then I would tell them to go ahead and read so and so if they must and see whether or not my warnings are correct.

Think about this … these chaps at Ogden have been screaming ruddy murder about Wilson’s “gate-keeping,” and yet is not this “gate-keeping” at its best? So it seems gate-keeping is not proper for Doug but it is proper for them.

7.) In the end my problem here is that these chaps are going on and on suggesting that they are opposed to what is now called “the post-war consensus” but in this letter from 2021 they are gate-keeping for the post-war consensus that Weaver had been rightly attacking.

Now, it may be possible that the Ogden blokes have moved in their thinking on this matter since 2021 and as such would not write this letter again in 2025. If that is the case it would be good to know because if they still hold the above position then they are really still invested in maintaining one important aspect of the post-war consensus.

I say all this as someone who does not believe that all interracial marriage is always sinful, while still believing that interracial marriage is the chief tool being used to make the post-war consensus eternal.

Author: jetbrane

I am a Pastor of a small Church in Mid-Michigan who delights in my family, my congregation and my calling. I am postmillennial in my eschatology. Paedo-Calvinist Covenantal in my Christianity Reformed in my Soteriology Presuppositional in my apologetics Familialist in my family theology Agrarian in my regional community social order belief Christianity creates culture and so Christendom in my national social order belief Mythic-Poetic / Grammatical Historical in my Hermeneutic Pre-modern, Medieval, & Feudal before Enlightenment, modernity, & postmodern Reconstructionist / Theonomic in my Worldview One part paleo-conservative / one part micro Libertarian in my politics Systematic and Biblical theology need one another but Systematics has pride of place Some of my favorite authors, Augustine, Turretin, Calvin, Tolkien, Chesterton, Nock, Tozer, Dabney, Bavinck, Wodehouse, Rushdoony, Bahnsen, Schaeffer, C. Van Til, H. Van Til, G. H. Clark, C. Dawson, H. Berman, R. Nash, C. G. Singer, R. Kipling, G. North, J. Edwards, S. Foote, F. Hayek, O. Guiness, J. Witte, M. Rothbard, Clyde Wilson, Mencken, Lasch, Postman, Gatto, T. Boston, Thomas Brooks, Terry Brooks, C. Hodge, J. Calhoun, Llyod-Jones, T. Sowell, A. McClaren, M. Muggeridge, C. F. H. Henry, F. Swarz, M. Henry, G. Marten, P. Schaff, T. S. Elliott, K. Van Hoozer, K. Gentry, etc. My passion is to write in such a way that the Lord Christ might be pleased. It is my hope that people will be challenged to reconsider what are considered the givens of the current culture. Your biggest help to me dear reader will be to often remind me that God is Sovereign and that all that is, is because it pleases him.

7 thoughts on “Are The Ogden Lads Really That Adamantly Opposed To The Post-War Consensus?”

  1. I’m not familiar with John Weaver. Is he a pastor somewhere? Are there any books/resources you recommend where I can learn more? Thanks.

  2. Might be more frank and honest to speak of not just about “interracial” but also about “inter-tribal” marriages. In Africa, tribal hostility is still very much reality, and Hausa boy wanting to marry an Igbo girl could easily lead to a Romeo and Juliet-situation.

  3. I would be interested in a little more context in which the letter was written. What you quote is disappointing. John Weaver is gold.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *