Romans 6:23
Note — Lutheranism is included here because
1.) Lutheranism denies the perseverance of the Saints, teaching that one can lose their salvation, and when that is taught Christianity becomes a works religion.
2.) Lutheranism affirms that people can say “no” to irresistible grace and if people can say “no” to irresistible grace then the difference between those who say “no” and those who say “yes,” is the difference that constitutes a works.
3.) Lutheranism (like Arminianism) teaches that Christ died for all men. If Christ died for all men and all men are not saved then that which differentiates those who are saved that Christ died for and those who are not saved that Christ died for is a good work done by those who are Christ died that activates the death of Christ for them vis-a-vis those who don’t do that good work for whom Christ has also died.
So what do you do with the book of James. A faith without works is a dead faith? Also, what is the historical Reformed view on this question?
Thank you for the inquiry Hector.
James and Paul are dealing w/ two different issues.
When Paul says …
15We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile “sinners” 16 know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
He is talking about how it is a person is justified. He says it is by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law.
OTOH when James writes;
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.
James is NOT dealing with the same issue as Paul. As I said Paul is answering the question; “How is a man justified.” James however is answering the question “How is a justified man’s justification justified?” And the answer is “by his works.” However, the fact that a man’s justification is justified (vindicated) by his works in no ways suggests that the man himself is justified by works.
I think this is a pretty typical way for the Reformed to deal with this very good question.
So, what you are saying is that if he has no works, then his justification is “not” justified and as Paul says, he has a dead faith. But will a dead faith qualify you to be justified by what Jesus provided for the removal of the penalty of our sin? I believe the Reformers wrestled with this question which led to them developing the order of salvation doctrine. Also, wasn’t this the same issue that led to the issue involving the Federal Vision debate with guys like Doug Wilson?
I am saying what I said. I am not saying what you said.
James is saying that if one’s justification is to be vindicated as before men then there must be works. However, that does not mean that the absence of works at any given moment means that one is not justified. It may merely mean that said person is experiencing declension and is still justified before God.
This really isn’t difficult Hector. Works are the consequence and proof of justification but are not causal of justification. If there are no works over time then one must question if they ever died and rose again with Christ.
Yes …. Federal Vision is heresy because they got this wrong. And yes the Reformers and their heirs bequeathed a ordo salutis.
δικαιόω
dikaioō
Thayer Definition:
1) to render righteous or such he ought to be
2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
The sense of justification in James is horizontal, no. 2 above. It is synonymous with vindication. Faith is evidenced to men by works that demonstrate it. The Christian is vindicated in his claim to saving faith before men, by a life of obedience to the commands of the One he claims to trust. So justification in James is in the second sense in the definition given above. To show or exhibit. That is why James says show me. Show me your faith without the works and I will show you my faith by my works. So in theological terms the accent in James is on the “probative” character of good works. They serve as proof; they attest to ones justified condition.
Justification in the Pauline epistles is vertical dealing with the judicially constitutive and declarative character of justification. God declares and constitutes men justified on the basis of their faith in Christ. Paul is dealing with how men obtain a right standing before God. Paul says works do not merit justification before God and James says works vindicate a persons faith before men. Man is justified by faith alone (Paul), but it is not a faith that is alone (James).
Mark Chambers
I am a Lutheran attendee and communicant, and I have never heard it preached that you can lose salvation. I have heard the opposite implied, at least once you have believed. And Luther himself preached eternal security, unless I’m much mistaken.
Ask you’re Lutheran minister directly …. “Do you believe in the perseverance of the saints so that no one baptized and who was genuinely in Christ fails in being finally saved.”
I’ve had many debates with Lutherans. I can tell you that they do not believe in the perseverance of the saints and speak contradictorily on this matter as is seen in this post from a Lutheran.
https://confessinglutheran.home.blog/2019/08/15/introduction-to-soteriology-apostasy-and-perseverance-a-scriptural-apology/