A Conversation On Christians Sending God’s Covenant Seed To The Schools of Baphomet I

Joshua writes;

I hear this argument a lot: government schools only corrupt and indoctrinate. They do more harm than good. It is a sweeping accusation, but is it true?

Bret responds

Yes it is true, generally speaking;

Look, I’m not going to look up all the stats for you on how bad our secondary education is. Here are just a few;

63% of American 12th graders are rated “basic” or “below basic” in reading achievement, the Education Department revealed.

The Education Department also said the statistic that 37% of 12th graders would not qualify for entry-level college courses is accurate if it refers to a particular National Assessment of Educational Progress (or NAEP) test that the National Assessment Governing Board has said can serve as a proxy for entry-level college work.

While looking up the stats, if you want you can also look up how superior homeschooling numbers are to public school numbers.

Now factor in how bad the education is at the teacher colleges of those who get degrees in “education.”

I think the thing for me to do is to recommend a few books so you can get up to speed on the subject.

“The Messianic Character of American Education — R. J. Rushdoony

“The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America” – Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt

“The Worm In The Apple” – Peter Brimelow

Anything by John Taylor Gatto

Anything by Samuel L. Blumenfeld.

Look, I’ve been all over this subject over the years. I’ve read tons of the material. I know what I’m talking about when I say public schools almost universally suck. If you can find a Unicorn among them … congratulations.

Joshua writes

Is every public school like this? I know of homeschooled/Christian schooled kids who went to public high school, and were surprised at how much study they had to do to stay afloat. Surprised too, that the school had rules, and would expel kids for breaking them.

Bret responds,

Anecdotes hold no water. Do the reading and get back to me.

Joshua writes,

The rhetoric resembles Dabney’s (courageous and brilliant man) but he was proud of his secular university education and he taught at another one.

Bret writes,

There is no such thing as “secular.”

And the education given at the University in the early 19th century is apples and oranges from where we are now. You’re making category mistakes.

Joshua writes,

Schools are terribly secular but they are still studying general revelation.

Bret responds,

There is no such thing as “secular.” All education without exception is hopelessly religious.

Since man’s reason is fallen general revelation is only as good as the religious presuppositions that fallen man brings to the general revelation. Currently, those presuppositions are thoroughly anti-Christ and as such the general revelation he will read will confirm his anti-Christ presuppositions.

Joshua writes,

It is better for millions of children to be studying that rather than nothing at all.

Bret responds,

As a Pastor I have told people consistently that they would be better served having their children stay at home not being formally educated at all then sending them to government schools where they will be catechized into a false religion and where they will learn to read general revelation in such a way that confirms the false religion.

Shoot… if you want I can link you to a video where the chap teaches that Natural law (a subset of general revelation) teaches that sodomy is perfectly in keeping with Natural Law.

Joshua writes,

Obviously they would get a lot more out of their studies if they also studied special revelation from a Reformed perspective, began and ended each school day with prayer, etc. But you and I are communicating right now in part because of pagans who have studied the book of nature well enough to make advancements in technology.

Bret responds,

You and I are communicating only because fallen man;

1.) Is never consistent with his Christ hating presuppositions
2.) Borrows from the capital of a Christian world and life view in order to get his Christ hating worldview off the ground and running.

Fallen man gets things right not because he reads general revelation aright but he gets things right despite his reading general revelation wrongly.

You and I are not on the same page about education and neither are we on the same page in terms of worldview and epistemology.

Joshua writes,

But not studying general revelation at all is what Satan and Rome would prefer. You remember the medieval mindset: “ignorance is the mother of devotion”. Uneducated people are much easier to manipulate and control. Rome therefore argued that only the clergy and a few others, in the tight grip of the Church, should have an education.

Bret responds,

LOL … we spend tens of millions of dollars on education and we have to be one of the stupidest peoples on the planet. Do the reading of the books cited above.

Secondly, it strikes me that many, if not most, of those who have terminal degrees are the most easily propagandized and manipulated people I come across. Clergy and Professors are the worst of all. I know very very few educated clergy and almost all of those clergy I know have either Masters or Ph.D’s.

“Education” hasn’t delivered people from ignorance. Putative education has merely made people confirmed in their ignorance. Indeed, I’d say that currently we need to flip your proverb and say, “Education is the mother of devotion.” That is tongue in cheek of course.

Joshua wrote,

And it is just not the case that if the government gets out of education, all parents will step up and work harder than ever to make sure their children get educated. In his lectures defending the establishment principle, Thomas Chalmers points out that education is not subject to the law of demand and supply. The less educated people are, and the less access they have to education, the less they desire it. “Men love darkness rather than light”- including the light of general revelation. Especially when their bellies are full.

Bret responds,

I’ll place my bet on parents. I’ve seen and know what Government education looks like. I have known countless secondary school teachers. I’ve yet to come across one that was intelligent. Now, I’ve known a few University types who were sharp but not so many that I have concluded that they are the norm.

That men loved darkness rather than light is true. It explains why they are so comfortable piling up degrees.

Joshua writes,

Christian parents will try to educate their children no matter what, but when they do it themselves, the results are mixed. Homeschooling advocates point to high SAT scores of homeschoolers, but that’s only counting the ones that actually take the SAT. I know of many burnt out homeschooling parents and half-educated children who resent the fact that they are studying well into their 20s, while working a full-time job, to get the education they should have gotten in their teens.

Bret responds,

I’m not interested in your anecdotes. I have anecdotes also that are different then your anecdotes.

Believe me … those home educated children you’re talking about should instead thank their parents that they didn’t send them to a place where the interest is not in education but in reinforcing societal command and control mechanisms. You can’t really believe that the secondary schools have any interest in educating can you?

Read the sources I posted. If you believe that you’re deluded.

Joshua writes,

I want to see a Christian nation as much as you. But to convince others, we have to steer clear of bad arguments. One argument against government schools sounds Anabaptistic:

The government must be secular and have nothing to do with religion (or education)
Therefore the government (schools) will be anti-Christian.
Therefore the Christian should have nothing to do with government (schools).

Bret responds,

You’re first premise is faulty. There is no such thing as secular. That means your 1st conclusion is faulty since unless schools are explicitly Christian they will by default be anti-Christian. There is no such thing as neutrality.

However, per the 1st commandment your conclusion is true.

The anabaptists believed that anything outside of their community (“the world”) was evil. I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing that what is not Christian is evil to one degree or another and government schools are not Christian … nor are they neutral (secular). They are hopelessly religious and the religion that they advocate and teach is NOT the Christian religion. Our current Christian schools are not the “secular” schools that Dabney would’ve attended. They are the kind of schools that the Marquis de Sade would’ve built.

Can you understand that distinction?

Joshua writes,

But if government, Christian or not, is a divine institution, then it can provide good things. Its secular nature does not mean everything it does will be harmful. This includes education. Texas University Professor Dabney would agree.

Bret responds,

Governments that are not Christian are by definition anti-Christian. Neutrality is a myth. There is no such thing as secular. That is a classical liberal mindset. One that I do not share.

If Dabney were alive today he would agree with me. Read his stuff on Education as can be found in his “Secular Writings.”

Look Joshua, you strike me as a bright chap with a sharp blade but your blade is set at the wrong angle and though sharp, is cutting wrong with every cut.

Thanks for the conversation. I don’t think we are going to make much progress though as we are each beginning at very different starting points.

Cheers