Cody Justice writes,
“The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth his handywork… their line is gone out through all the earth. God left not himself without witness, in that he gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons. Consider the ravens… consider the lilies, how they grow. Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. After the doings of the land of Egypt… shall ye not do, and after the doings of the land of Canaan… shall ye not do. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made… who changed the natural use… for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature… and the men likewise… receiving in themselves that recompence of their error. Who knowing the judgment of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law… which shew the work of the law written in their hearts… their conscience also bearing witness. Doth not even nature itself teach you…?”
(Psalm 19:1–4; Acts 14:17; Luke 12:24–28; Proverbs 6:6; Leviticus 18:3; Romans 1:20, 26–27, 32; Romans 2:14–15; 1 Corinthians 11:14).
Bret responds,
Once again Cody as a rabid Natural Law advocate shows up to declare what God has made known. No theonomist/presuppositionalist disagrees that God has made Himself known via Natural Law. This is red herring argumentation on Cody’s part. What the Theonomist contends is the even though God has made himself known, fallen man, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, and having a mind that is at warfare with God, works to the end to insist that he does not know what God has made clear. In order to know what God has made clear fallen man must be regenerated so as to be instructed by Scripture which alone is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training for righteousness.
Here we follow the Synod of Dordt;
The Synod Dort on the effectiveness of Natural Law;
Third & Fourth Head
Article 4
“There remain, however, in man since the fall, the glimmerings of natural light, whereby he retains some knowledge of God, of natural things, and of the differences between good and evil, and discovers some regard for virtue, good order in society, and for maintaining an orderly external deportment. But so far is this light of nature from being sufficient to bring him to a saving knowledge of God and to true conversion, that he is incapable of using it aright even in things natural and civil. Nay, further, this light, such as it is, man in various ways renders wholly polluted and holds it in unrighteousness, by doing which he becomes inexcusable before God.”
So, we appreciate Cody stepping up the plate here but we see that it is in the words of the great Detroit Tigers play by play man, Ernie Harwell…
“A swing and a miss.”
Cody writes,
Nature is everywhere “presupposed” in the God-breathed Scripture as a moral teacher, both about right and wrong and about God. It is not this because Scripture says so; it is this inherently, and Scripture attests to and confirms it.
Bret
Without presupposing God and His Word we don’t even know what nature is or means. Remember, in Christ all things consist. This includes the idea of “nature,” and the idea of all meaning. Even man the knower cannot know himself apart from presupposing God and the Scriptures, never mind knowing nature. I will say it again for those hard of hearing… “While it is the case that nature has inherent meaning that inherent meaning can not be known who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.” To insist otherwise is to deny the Reformed doctrine of total depravity.
Then there is the fact that nature is fallen — red in tooth and claw as some have it. So, you have fallen man, reading fallen nature and coming to un-fallen and proper conclusions?
Cody writes,
Nature does not exist apart from God. It is because God made it, and it, as creation, reflects the Creator. He expects us (believer or not) to use it well, and if we don’t he will hold us accountable.
Bret responds,
1.) God made nature and nature finds its meaning only by the one presupposing God and His Word as the one who created nature.
2.) Fallen man cannot use nature well and that is because he was ruined in Adam and so no experiences total depravity. This total depravity works to the end of twisting everything (including Natural Law) to the end of man serving himself as fallen and not God. After all the carnal mind is at enmity (warfare) against God. It cannot submit (Romans 8:7).
3.) By insisting that fallen man can read fallen nature aright you are doing exactly what Van Til spoke of. You are sneaking stolen Christian capital into your humanist epistemology in order to get it off the ground and operating in order to deny the necessity of presupposing God and His Word to understand real reality. You are climbing up in God’s lap in order to slap Him in the face. You are saying that there is meaningful meaning (climbing up in God’s lap) but that that meaningful meaning can be known even by those who hate God and His Word (slapping God in the face.)
We should also say something here about Cody’s misinterpretation of Romans 2.
