Examining “Rev.” Dr. Pastor Lee’s Non Latin Theology … R2K Unleashed (VIII)

Continuing to examine “Rev.” Dr. Pastor (ad infinitum) Lee’s mid-term Election piece located here,

http://www.patheos.com/Topics/Politics-in-the-Pulpit/The-Church-Should-Not-Weigh-In-On-Ballot-Issues-Brian-Lee-110314.html

“Rev.” Dr. Pastor (ad infinitum) Lee (but who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles and who is not a coward) wrote,

This is a controversial, but crucial, distinction. Let’s apply it to the contested area of abortion.

God’s law clearly proscribes the taking of life. His word clearly teaches that unborn life is precious and to be protected. This has been a hallmark of Christian social ethics since the early church. Therefore, as a preacher I can unambiguously proclaim from the pulpit that a Christian who aborts their child is committing a heinous sin. God commands his people to preserve and protect life.

But the command to not take a life is not a command to pass a law not to take a life. Nor is it a command to politically agitate or lobby for such a law. Such political activity could be understood to run counter to Paul’s command to church to “live quietly and mind your own affairs” (1 Thessalonians 4:11).

1.) Here is one example of German Christians from the 1930’s following Lee’s advice to not politically agitate and to live quietly and mind your own affairs,

“A railroad track ran behind our small church, and each Sunday morning we would hear the whistle from the distance and then the clacking of the wheels moving over the track. We became disturbed when one Sunday we noticed cries coming from the train as it passed by. We grimly realized that the train was carrying innocent prisoners. They were like cattle in those cars!”

“Week after week that train whistle would blow. We would dread to hear the sound of those old wheels because we knew that the innocent prisoners would begin to cry to us as they passed our church. It was so terribly disturbing! We could do nothing to help these poor miserable people, yet their screams tormented us. We knew exactly at what time that whistle would blow, and we decided the only way to keep from being so disturbed by the cries was to start singing our hymns. By the time the train came rumbling past the church yard, we were singing at the top of our voices. If some of the screams reached our ears, we’d just sing a little louder until we could hear them no more.”

2.) Allow me to contend that when Christians speak up for the judicially innocent and the “least of these” they are minding their own affairs and are therefore not crosswise with I Thessalonians 4:11. Besides, is Lee really minding his own affairs and living quietly when he disrupts the Church with his alien theology? Physician heal thyself.

3.) Lee says above that a “Christian who aborts their child is committing a heinous sin.” Because of the way that Lee uses language in a slippery way one wonders if this means that Lee does not think that the non Christian who aborts their children are committing a heinous sin?

4.) Understand that Lee has explicitly said there that for a Christian, to politically agitate or lobby for a law is counter to Scripture’s command. Think about it. If it is counter to Scripture’s command for a Minister to politically agitate or lobby for a law from the Pulpit because it violates the idea of leading a quiet life then why would it be acceptable for any Christian in any context to politically agitate or lobby for a law for the same reason? Are only the ministers to live a quite life and mind their own affairs?

All of the Latin reading and German Published Minister’s “reasoning” is hash.

Examining “Rev.” Dr. Pastor Lee’s Non Latin Theology … R2K Unleashed (VII)

Continuing to examine “Rev.” Dr. Pastor (ad infinitum) Lee’s mid-term Election piece located here,

http://www.patheos.com/Topics/Politics-in-the-Pulpit/The-Church-Should-Not-Weigh-In-On-Ballot-Issues-Brian-Lee-110314.html

“Rev.” Dr. Pastor (ad infinitum) Lee (but who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles and who is not a coward wrote,

As a minister of God’s word, I am therefore limited in how far I can say, “Thus sayeth the Lord.” I can only bind the consciences of my congregation so far as God’s Word has spoken.

There is a difference between saying “You shall not murder,” and saying “You shall pass a law that says you shall not murder.” The former implies the latter is a just act. But the latter act has different force altogether; it commands an act of governance, the authority for which the church lacks in the civil kingdom.

1.) Here Lee is seemingly non-confessional as he is sideways with HC 107 which states,

Q. Is it enough then that we do not murder our neighbor in any such way?

A. No. By condemning envy, hatred, and anger God wants us to love our neighbors as ourselves,1 to be patient, peace-loving, gentle, merciful, and friendly toward them,2 to protect them from harm as much as we can, and to do good even to our enemies.3

The catechism instructs us that we are required to protect our neighbors from harm as much as we can while Lee is instructing us that the Institutional Church and its Ministers in its and their role as Institutional Church and Ministers must not protect our neighbors from harm as much as we can. HC 107 gives us both the wisdom and authority to speak a “thus sayeth the Lord,” and Lee denies this.

2.) Keep in mind that if a Minister says in the pulpit “Congregation, you should vote against the Law that allows abortion,” he is not saying that in the civil Kingdom. He is saying that in the Church realm. The minister therefore is not commanding an act of governance for the civil Kingdom, rather, he is commanding an act of governance for the people of God as they are underneath the authority of the Word in the Church realm. The minister takes them to the catechism (Lord’s Day 40 in this case), and teaches them that they are to prevent the hurt of their neighbor as much as lies in them and that one way to prevent the hurt of their neighbor that does lie in them is to not vote for people who will vote for abortion. (One is left wondering if this is really that difficult for a guy with a earned Doctorate who reads books in Latin and who has been published by German publishing houses.) The minister then could explain that in representative government when you vote for someone you are yoking yourself with that person so much so that when they act you act. (One basic idea of Federalism.) The minister could then bring it home that when they vote for people that vote for abortion they are involving themselves in that sin and crime and so are violating the idea of protecting our neighbor from harm as much as we can and so are trespassing the 6th commandment.

3.) On this point keep in mind that in a Constitutional Republic (in which we live) the people are a large percentage of the governance. Lee’s envisioned scenario suggests that the Institutional Church and its Ministers should not speak God’s mind by God’s authority to the percentage of the governing Constitutional Republic that is attending word and sacrament. In a Constitutional Republic the assumption is that the people do have the wisdom and authority to make these kinds of decisions and Lee’s “thinking” suggests that God’s wisdom and authority shouldn’t be impressed upon the minds of that portion of the governing Constitutional Republic under our shepherding care.

4.) Note what Lee is doing is that he is suggesting that one can give the truth of something (Thou Shalt Not Murder) but is forbidden to give all the implications of “Thou Shalt Not Murder.” Certainly a Minister can give the implications in the sense of not burying a knife into someone themselves but the Minister can not tell God’s people they can not hire someone, by their vote, to murder someone. This is all very strange stuff.

Examining “Rev.” Dr. Pastor Lee’s non Latin Theology … R2K Unleashed (VI)

Continuing to examine

“RealLive,LegitPh.DReverendDoctorwhohasreadbooksandallthat(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee. (And who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles.) mid-term Election piece located here,

http://www.patheos.com/Topics/Politics-in-the-Pulpit/The-Church-Should-Not-Weigh-In-On-Ballot-Issues-Brian-Lee-110314.html

“RealLive,LegitPh.DReverend Doctorwhohasreadbooksandall that(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee. (And who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles.) wrote,

“Let me be perfectly clear. I am not advocating an utterly private spirituality, such that our faith has no impact on our public behavior and speech. There is a key distinction to be made between the duties of the church in its official capacity—i.e., the provisional governing authority of the heavenly kingdom—and the duties of individual dual-citizen Christians.

Churches absolutely have the obligation to mandate adherence to God’s law. Christ commanded the church to “make disciples… teaching them to observe all that I commanded you” (Matthew 28:19). This is why “discipline”—teaching and enforcing God’s moral law—is a distinguishing mark of Reformed churches. How then can religious congregations guide their members in moral and social issues, especially in this politicized age where every such decision seems to have political and economic ramifications?

Here the Christian tradition must acknowledge that the New Testament is virtually silent about how the world should be governed by the civil authorities. (Note: while Old Testament Israel’s theocracy is relevant, the New Testament does not teach that it is a model for the church.)

For obvious reasons, because New Testament believers lived under Roman rule they were not commanded to engage in political activity. Nowhere in the New Testament are individual believers commanded to tell people outside the church how to behave. In contrast, we are told to lead quiet lives, and not disturb the extant order. Paul commands the church to “submit” (Romans 13.1).

1.)

RealLive,LegitPh.DReverendDoctorwhohasreadbooksandallthat(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee insist that he is not advocating an utter private spirituality and yet later in his article he insists that “neither the Church nor her preachers can say unambiguously that such laws (against abortion) must be enacted.

One wonder if

RealLive,LegitPh.DReverendDoctorwhohasreadbooksandallthat(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee see the contradiction he is involved in? On one hand we are told that as Ministers we can privately be against abortion but we must not publicly say in a pulpit that “since God’s law prohibits abortion we should prohibit abortion in our laws.” Privately we can be opposed to abortion. Publicly in the pulpit we must not say that abortion should be prohibited.

And yet Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published wants us to believe that he is not advocating utterly private spirituality? Ok … maybe the trick there is the word “utterly?”

2.) Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published but doesn’t give a hill of beans about titles, makes a big deal about how the New Testament is virtually silent. Once again, this demonstrates that Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published is operating according to a kind of Reformed Dispensationalism. His Baptist hermeneutic is telling him that unless the New Testament repeats a truth from the Old Testament we must assume that God’s word is silent about a matter. For Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published the Old Testament is not authoritative. That this is true for Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published can be seen in the fact that he baldly says that since the New Testament doesn’t repeat the Old Testament when it comes to theocracy therefore we must believe that the Old Testament is not authoritative.

3.) The New Testament though is not virtually silent on how the world should be governed by civil authorities. Romans 13 says volumes. Here we turn to Christopher Goodman’s sermon on this text and subject.

http://www.constitution.org/cmt/goodman/obeyed.htm

Read Christopher Goodman’s short book and watch him draw out from Romans 13 principles for how the world should be governed contra Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published but doesn’t give a hill of beans about titles.

As one example we see that Goodman overturns Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published but doesn’t give a hill of beans about titles thesis that Christians must be silent before all ordained leaders thus revealing how Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published but doesn’t give a hill of beans about titles is mishandling the text. Goodman (who also read Latin) writes on Romans 13:1,

Then as the Apostle writes, we confess, and so much as he speaks we grant, that is, that all men are bound to obey such Magistrates, whom God has ordained over us lawfully according to His word, which rule in His fear according to their office, as God has appointed. For though the Apostle says: There is no power but of God: yet does he here mean any other powers, but such as are orderly and lawfully instituted by God. Either else should He approve all tyranny and oppression, which comes to any commonwealth by means of wicked and ungodly rulers, which are to be called rightly disorders, and subversions in commonwealths, and not God’s ordinance. For He never ordained any laws to approve, but to reprove and punish tyrants, idolaters, papists, and oppressors. Then when they are such, they are not God’s ordinance. And in disobeying and resisting such, we do not resist God’s ordinance, but Satan’s …

So, one principle that Goodman finds here from the New Testament, for how the world should be governed is that it should not be governed by Christ Haters. I for one am shocked that Goodman would disagree on the interpretation of Romans 13:1 with Dr. Rev. Pastor Lee who reads Latin and has been published but doesn’t give a hill of beans about titles.

4.) We are told that “Churches absolutely have the obligation to mandate adherence to God’s law” but we are also told, in so many words, that Churches absolutely have the obligation to mandate adherence to God’s law until one is in the voting booth where the mandate is lifted. The Church must mandate that members not steal but the Church must not mandate regarding the legality of them if the membership are stealing via the agency of the third party Senator or Congressman for whom they vote.

5.) What if the Extant order passes legislation that all ministers with the last name “Lee” must be executed? Is it ok to trouble the extant order then? Is it acceptable then for Ministers to say from the Pulpit that such a law must be overturned?

Now A Word From “Real Live, Legit Ph.D Reverend Doctor — who has read books and all that (most of them in Latin) and who has had his Dissertation published with Vandenhoek & Ruprecht, (a legit German academic house)” Brian Lee

Rev. Dr. Pastor Brian Lee left a comment in my comments section wanting me to make sure that everybody knew he doesn’t “give a hill of beans for titles.”

So, I wanted to make sure everybody had a chance to see how “Real Live, Legit Ph.D Reverend Doctor — who has read books and all that (most of them in Latin) and who has had his Dissertation published with Vandenhoek & Ruprecht, (a legit German academic house)” — Brian Lee wishes to be addressed.

As such, in the future we will be referring to Brian as “RealLive,LegitPh.DReverend Doctorwhohasreadbooksandall that(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee. (And who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles.)

So that we are all clear on this I offer the comment text of “RealLive,LegitPh.DReverend Doctorwhohasreadbooksandall that(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee. (And who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles.)

“RealLive,LegitPh.DReverend Doctorwhohasreadbooksandall that(mostoftheminLatin)andwhohashadhisDissertationpublishedwithVandenhoek&Ruprecht,(alegitGermanacademichouse)” BrianLee. (And who doesn’t give a hill of beans for titles.) wrote,

If you insist on doing battle with your straw man, and having read your material in the past I expect little better, please get the titles right, and the courtesy of respect due to my office in a sister Reformed church. Christ’s body deserves that much respect.

First, it’s “Doctor,” as in a real live, legit PhD, reading books and all that, most of them written in Latin. Dissertation published with Vandenhoek & Ruprecht, legit German academic house. Granted, not a church title, but relevant to the discussion.

Second, it’s “Reverend,” as in, Minister of Word and Sacrament ordained in the United Reformed Churches of North America, and fully bound in that office by my oath of subscription to the Three Forms of Unity. [If I’m not mistaken, some or all of the authors of this blog are ordained in the PCA, a sister church in NAPARC, so I regret the lack of respect shown.]

Third, it’s “Pastor,” as in church planter of Christ Reformed Church in Washington, DC, under-shepherd to souls of real live people who live and work in our nation’s capitol.

Titles don’t matter a hill of beans to me. But your scare quotes show disrespect to the church which has called me and bestowed them upon me. Go ahead and make your silly arguments, but please don’t insist on insulting the Bride of Christ.

Good day. And no, I’m not a coward, but I don’t intend in taking part in any give and take in this combox, as experience has taught me it would be fruitless.

Examining “Rev.” Lee’s Theology … R2K Unleashed (V)

Continuing to examine Lee’s mid-term Election piece located here,

http://www.patheos.com/Topics/Politics-in-the-Pulpit/The-Church-Should-Not-Weigh-In-On-Ballot-Issues-Brian-Lee-110314.html

“While individual believers live in both kingdoms, the church and her servants, Gospel preachers, are exclusively heralds and ambassadors of the heavenly, redemptive kingdom. Like any good ambassador, they carry only the message of the king who sends them, and this message is very precisely circumscribed by the New Testament: “For I determined to know nothing among you but Christ and him crucified” (1 Corinthians 2:2).

The Good News of Jesus Christ is the sole focus of our Gospel ministry, because we have neither the authority nor the expertise to weigh in on civil matters. This is why in the matter of the Houston subpoena of preached sermons, I wrote that as far as preached material goes, pastors should be entirely willing to send their sermons to anyone who will listen.”

1.) Here Lee premises that the only message that the Lord Christ has for this world is “Marvel not when I say unto you, you must be born again,” or, “we beseech ye be ye reconciled to God.” But this is the beginning of our undoubted catholic Christian faith, not all of our undoubted catholic Christian faith. There are other words that ministers are to speak to their congregations from the pulpit.

2.) The idea that Ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ can only give thematic messages that are consistent with “I determined to know nothing among you but Christ and him crucified” (1 Corinthians 2:2), is belied by St. Paul writing to Timothy, “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.” Was Paul being unfaithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ for telling Timothy something besides Christ and Him crucified when he told him to throw back some liquor? In the same way Ministers are commissioned to bring forth the whole counsel of God — a counsel that speaks to every area of life.

3.) Lee reveals some serious confusion in the second paragraph above. Lee keeps suggesting that the Institutional Church and her Ministers are involving themselves in the Church realm when in point of fact it is the civil realm that is involving itself in the Church realm. Lee wants the Church to “shut up” because the Church shouldn’t involve itself in the common realm when the reality is that the Church must speak, precisely because the civil realm is involving itself in the Church. When the Magistrate seeks to redefine the Christian ethic of our people via making murder (abortion) and sodomy (sodomite marriage) normative then it is not the case, even by R2K standards, that the Church and her ministers are involving themselves in the civil realm, but rather the civil realm is involving itself in the Church’s bailiwick.

4.) In Acts 19 we see that the instructions of faithful ministers resulted in economic and social order chaos. Because of the Gospel message silversmiths were economically ruined and there was an occult book burning. These would have both been actions that would have been contrary to the social order and culture in Ephesus. Paul, as a minister of Christ, brings the Gospel, and the result is that those converted overturn the social order via their obedience. So much for Lee’s “circumscribing of the message.” It is not possible to speak to people about the need to turn to Christ without also speaking to them about the need to turn away from the idols that are propping up the common realm. Lee is wrong.

5.) Lee says that Ministers have neither the authority or expertise to weigh in on civil matters? Says who? Lee? Certainly ministers have the expertise to look at the abortionist Dr. Kermit Gosnell and then say from the pulpit, “Thou Shalt Not Murder.” What amount of expertise does it take to say abortion is murder? Secondly, we might ask on this score why is it that Lee assumes that it is Politicians who have enough expertise to weigh in on civil matters? Politicians are some of the stupidest people you will ever meet on God’s green earth.

6.) Clearly Ministers have the authority to speak a “Thou Shalt Not Murder,” to a social order intent on killing itself.

One wonders though…. where does Lee get the authority to suggest that ministers don’t have authority? Shouldn’t he, by his own principles, just resolve to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified?