9th Word

Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness

The appeal to objective truth

In a world that locks out God there is no objective truth and if there is no objective truth then the whole conversation about bearing either true or false witness is a non-sequitur.

So before we can talk about commandment #9 we have to presuppose that God is.

However, our culture with its evolution in biology its existentialism in philosophy and its deconstructionism in literature we have denied God as the creator, God as the giver of meaning, and God as the author and as such we have denied that true truth exists.

“Today not only in philosophy but in politics, government, and individual morality, our generation sees solutions in terms of synthesis and not absolutes. When this happens, truth, as people have always thought of truth, has died.”

Francis Schaeffer

C. S. Lewis gets at our problem regarding bearing true witness without God when he notes,

“Suppose there was no intelligence behind the universe, …. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. … When the atoms inside my skull happen for physical or chemical reasons to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call ‘thought’. But if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a glass of milk and hoping that the way the splash arranges itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to atheism; therefore I have no reason to be an atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I can’t believe in thought, so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God”

– C.S. Lewis in The Case for Christianity

If there is no God, then talking about the bearing of either false or true witness is gibberish. If God does not exist and all we are is matter in motion then all I can say in terms of witnessing is whatever bio-chemical charges that occur in my head allow me to say.

It is true that despite the wide scale denial of God there remains an expectation of bearing true witness among modern Western man, but how modern man justifies that idea is impossible to gauge. We clamor for the bearing of proper witness and yet by our denial of the God of the Bible we render such an ethic impossible.

The expectation among modern men that the truth be told is a hangover from the Christian moral tradition that built the Western world. The expectation of proper witnessing is inconsistent with a time plus chance plus circumstance world. What the modern pagan West has done is to wrench the flower of a Christian ethic — an ethic that includes forbidding false witnessing — from the theological soil that makes such an ethic possible, and have then transplanted that Christian ethic into the non-Christian theological gravel that is the theology that now informs the West.

Or to put it another way, we have cut the flower of truth telling from the theological soil where it grows and yet we still expect the flower to remain full of life. To paraphrase Lewis,

We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We scorn the notion of God and are shocked to find false witnesses in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.

So our first point this morning is if we are to be a people who care about truth telling, and if we are to put off false witnessing and put on true witnessing we must have a vibrant belief in the God of the Bible who is Himself the God of Truth (John 16:13).

Our second point as we consider the 9th commandment is to remember that the prohibition against bearing false witness should be thought of vertically before it is considered horizontally.

We are a Christian people. We are called not to bear false witness. Our primary concern, given that commandment then should be that we not bear false witness concerning the triune God. Our passion should be to be found to be faithful witnesses regarding the character of God.

There is a great need for God’s people to not give False witness concerning God today.

There are many ways that this is done. We bear false witness of God when we talk about God’s unconditional love outside the context of faith in Christ.

“Unconditional love separates God’s love from His Law. The love of God is never lawless or unprincipled, never separate from His holiness, justice, and righteousness. Unconditional love is love with no strings attached; no requirements for change, no recognition of evil or acknowledgment of right and wrong. Unconditional love is a more revolutionary concept than any other doctrine of revolution. Unconditional love means the end of discrimination between good and evil, right and wrong, better and worse, friend and enemy, and all things else. Whenever anyone asks you to love unconditionally, they are asking you to surrender unconditionally to the enemy.

R.J. Rushdoony

Ministers and laymen alike are causing tremendous confusion and damage in the modern church by bearing false witness concerning the character and nature of God. It is true for those in Christ that nothing can separate us from the Love of God, but it is also true that the Love of God makes us a people who are zealous for good works. We have no business telling those who are unconcerned with flagrantly violating God’s standard that God’s love is unconditional as if in making a claim on God is the same as revealing that God has a claim on us.

That God’s love anticipates fruit in keeping with repentance among His people is seen in passages like,

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ (Jude 3,4).

Note here that we here strains of the false witness against God that his love does not expect a certain walk. These people that Jude writes about had turned the grace of God into lasciviousness.

Lasciviousness” is translated from the Greek word aselgeia, which means “unbridled lust, excess, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence.”

So, the false witness against God’s character (gracious = promiscuous) is no new thing and yet that danger is something we need to keep before us.

Likewise false witness concerning God is born when Christians deny His exhaustive sovereignty.

When Christians deny, as many do, Grace Alone Through Faith Alone in Christ Alone as our rescue from sin, when we deny the doctrines of Grace that teaches that redeemed man contributes nothing to His right standing before God, when we deny the exhaustive providence of God of the kind taught in our Catechism, or when we deny the necessity to esteem the use of God’s law as a guide for life for Christians, in both the private realm and the public square, we bear false witness concerning God’s sovereignty and so violate the 9th commandment most egregiously.

When Scripture’s teach, “The Lord God Omnipotent Reigns,” it means that God is all powerful — is Sovereign.

There are other ways that we can bear false witness concerning God. We can question God’s word as being inerrant and infallible. We can divide God’s word up so that the Old Testament has an expiration date that no longer requires us to take it seriously. We can bear false witness concerning who God’s people are mistakenly teaching that God’s people are still the Jews when Scripture teaches that the Church is the people of God.

So, when we consider the necessity to not bear false witness perhaps what should go through our minds of utmost importance is pray that God would grant us grace not to bear false witness against Him.

Our third point this morning is to consider the 9th commandment as a requisite for justice in courts of law.

The ninth commandment, as it applies to a horizontal level (man with man) involves, first of all, judicial or courtroom matters. That is not its only sphere, in man’s relationship to his fellow man but it is its primary one.

The ruling chieftains of a set place exercised justice in ancient Israel. The system that was organized for the pursuit of justice was based upon witnessing. If God’s justice was to be had in this system then it required truth telling in the courtroom setting.There was no fingerprinting. No genetic testing. What was required and what was relied upon were truth telling witnesses.

Dt. 17:6 On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the]evidence of one witness.

Dt. 19:15 “ A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin [a]which he has committed; on the [b]evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

We see then with the 9th commandment how serious God was about the issue of justice among men. What established justice among men was the testimony of two witnesses. If witnesses were false the gravest of consequences could occur and the pursuit of justice would lead to injustice.

I Kings 21:13 Then the two worthless men came in and sat before him; and the worthless men testified against him, even against Naboth, before the people, saying, “Naboth cursed God and the king.” So they took him outside the city and stoned him to death with stones.

In this incident we see why Proverbs says,

8 Like a club and a sword and a sharp arrow
Is a man who bears false witness against his neighbor.

So, given how serious this witnessing was we can readily understand why God gave, as one of the 10 words, the prohibition of false witnessing. God also put teeth in this prohibition against false witnessing. If one were caught giving false witness that person would receive in themselves the penalty that was designated for the person who they were trying to convict with their false witness.

Dt. 19:16 If a malicious witness rises up against a man to [a]accuse him of [b]wrongdoing, 17 then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who will be in office in those days. 18 The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness and he has [c]accused his brother falsely, 19 then you shall do to him just as he had intended to do to his brother. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

So the prohibition against false witnessing was aimed at insuring justice and justice is something that God loves.

So, the 9th word reinforces the 6th, 7th, and 8th word. In order to protect life, marriage, and property you need legal institutions that can bring justice to bear but in order to bring justice to bear you need a prohibition against false witnessing since witnesses are instrumental in arriving at justice.

The ninth commandment involves a crucial issue — the safeguarding of honor, life, marriage and property. Where there is no justice because false witnessing abounds liberty vanishes and fear and injustice (Remember Naboth) reign.

72 Give the king your justice, O God,
and your righteousness to the royal son!
2 May he judge your people with righteousness,
and your poor with justice!
3 Let the mountains bear prosperity for the people,
and the hills, in righteousness!

Of course we still see the importance of the 9th commandment in our perjury laws. Being found guilty of perjury can land a person in a boatload of trouble. The reason for this today is the same as it was when the 9th commandment was given. If a court can not get at the truth, there will be no justice and where there is no justice every man will do what is right in his own eyes.

“All” in Romans 5:18

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

Now were we to take this as some would we would have to embrace a Universalist doctrine. We would be forced to say that as the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life therefore all men are justified. This of course proves too much. Orthodox Christians understand that other Scriptures clearly don’t allow for Universalism and therefore by comparing Scripture with Scripture we don’t believe this text is teaching universalism although some might think that is the face value of the text.

Neither can we get a Hypothetical universalism out of this text. There is nothing in Romans 5:12-21 that would indicate to us that Jesus only made Justification hypothetical or only possible. For example vs. 16 says the free gift resulted in justification. Vs. 16 does not say that the free gift resulted in possible justification. What Christ accomplished on the Cross was justification for His people, not a hypothetical justification for a hypothetical people.

We would note that Rm. 5:18-19 is a conclusionary statement summing up what the Apostle has set out in vs. 12-17. That which the Apostle has set out in those verses is the relationship between Adam as a Federal Head and all those in Him and the relationship between Christ as a Federal head and all those in Him.

Note vs. 16 — Judgment from one offense resulted in condemnation. To whom does this Condemnation apply? Well to all who are Federally united to the First Adam (cmp. vs. 12) Meanwhile the Free gift results in Justification. To whom does this Justification apply? Well for all who were and are Federally united to the Second Adam.

Now we turn to the word “all” in Romans 5:18

Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

I would say given the way the Apostle’s argument has developed in 12f that the first “all” is inclusive of all those who ever were Federally united to Adam. (Which means everybody since, “In Adam’s fall we sinned all”)

continuing in Romans 5:18

“even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”

Similarly I would say given the way the Apostles argument has developed in 12f that this second “all” is an all that is just as inclusive as the first all, with the understanding that it is referring to the “all” that are Federally united to the Second Adam.

So, the word “all” is the first instance is referring to the all who have been united to the First Adam. While the second all is speaking of a different all, to wit, all those united to the Second Adam.

So, the word all here does not apply to the same grouping of people but still is appropriate given that it applies to the total that is related to each Federal Head (Adam and Christ respectively). All of this is supported by the main thrust of the Apostle’s analogy. To wit, that there is a parallel between Adam and Christ in that condemnation and justification are the direct fruit of their disobedience and obedience. To say that all bore the fruit of condemnation from their Federal relation to Adam and that all might only possibly bear the fruit of justification by their possible relation to the Second Adam completely deconstructs the Apostles analogy. Being Federally united to Christ had consequences that were never merely possible just as being in Adam had consequences that were never merely possible.

More On Sodomite Chic(ken)

One of the people I serve in Christ’s congregation sent me this link below as it was sent to them by one of their “liberal friends.” The young lady who sent it to me said she was “interested in my thoughts.”

So here are my thoughts.

Debate #2 — They Just Don’t Get It

Sodomite Supporter (SS) says,

“My hope here is to find common ground with those who have disagreed with me on the issue, and maybe to persuade. It’s not to ridicule or to best.”

Bret responds,

Remember one of our motifs as Christians is that all ground is common ground though no ground is neutral ground. We have common ground with all people because all of this world is God’s world and no Christ-hater can escape God’s ground. However, as we shall see, there is no neutral ground where we can stand together. Especially in a worldview clash, such as the whole Chick-Fil-A (CFA) imbroglio where it has been revealed there is no ground where the adversaries can find mutual footing.

Secondly, the writer is being ingenuousness when he says he is not trying to “best,” with this article. Of course he is trying to best. He is seeking to carry the day with his apologetic.

SS

“So, in the interest of common ground, let’s start here: I acknowledge the absurdity of all this debate.

It’s definitely strange to have days-long Facebook debates flare up everywhere over a chicken sandwich. The anger, sarcasm, and hurt feelings on display seem strange or even laughable because most people have seen Chick-Fil-A as just a restaurant with a funny ad campaign. I’ll get into some of the whys and wherefores of that later. But, for now, let’s just say that, yes. It can seem ridiculous to get all worked up over fast-food chicken.”

But of course the debate is not absurd and it is definitely not about fast-food chicken. The CEO of CFA could have been selling chalk, or yachts, or hairpins and this issue would have been with us. It is hard to believe this person really believes this debate is flaring up over a chicken sandwich.

SS

“Let’s also agree that this isn’t about curtailing anyone’s rights under First Amendment. The Constitution is a legal document. This is not a legal argument. No one is arguing that Chik-fil-A CEO Dan Cathy should be put in prison, or silenced, or censored by the government. This has nothing to do with government censorship or government abridgment of Freedom of Speech. So don’t worry: the ability of this millionaire to legally spend his millions as he sees fit is not in jeopardy. You need not defend it.”

Bret

Actually this is, in part, precisely about 1st amendment rights. Now, the LGBT crowd has not yet mustered the strength to constitutionally silence people, however, the reason the LGBT crowd has gone after CFA is that it is giving millions of dollars to organizations who oppose their agenda. If they can silence CFA by restricting their growth through closing cities like Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, etc. from CFA they can financially wound CFA and thus send a message to other businesses that might themselves oppose the LGBT agenda that speaking out against the LGBT agenda will destroy your company. As such, while this is not about Dejure 1st amendment rights this is about defacto 1st amendment rights. CFA is being told in essence, “if you support those who oppose you we are going to silence you by shutting you down. If successful, the LGBT agenda also achieves the ability to reinforce PC speech. If successful by seeking to shut down CFA the LGBT agenda would be extended by everyone realizing that speaking out against sodomy is not socially acceptable and can end in personal or economic ruination.

People need to realize how powerful this LGBT agenda has become. They are using their propaganda in the government schools to socially engineer children. They are well ensconced in many of the Church denominations. They are politically well connected as can be seen in their ability to turn the US military into their bacchanalia playground. The attempt is to mainstream social deviance and to make anybody who speaks out against this deviance to be seen as the deviant.

SS

Now, let’s get to the nitty-gritty of things. Please read carefully. These things have been said before, but not by me, and not all in one place. Please read with an open mind. If you can’t read with an open mind, please leave, take a minute, come back, and try again. If you can’t do that, then please don’t bother. Please read all of the words here, rather than just reading half of the argument and assuming you know what I’m saying. Read these words as they are written. Again, if you don’t want to read my words, then don’t continue.

Bret

And of course, reading with “an open mind” here means, “read in such a way that you will agree with me.”

So here goes:

1. “This isn’t simply about marriage. Shocker, right? It’s extremely frustrating that same-sex marriage is the great continental divide. People are judged according to how they stand on this issue, as if no other issue matters. Did you know that a person can be for same-sex marriage and still be homophobic? Did you know that a person can be against same-sex marriage and be gay? We all get categorized very quickly based on the marriage issue and maybe that’s not fair. But here’s what you should know:”

Bret

Other issues do matter but the LGBT crowd are the ones who are trying to force this down our collective craw and so it should not be a surprise that this has become the issue it has. If someone is, at every turn, seeking to mainstream deviancy then they should not be surprised that at every turn resistance to that project is what they see. It is the LGBT crowd who are responsible for creating a climate where people act as if no other issue matters because for them it is the only issue that matters.

The other issues he brings up in terms of how different people can believe differently is irrelevant. It is just smoke to obfuscate the issue at hand.

SS

– In 29 states in America today, my partner of 18 years, Cody, or I could be fired for being gay. Period. No questions asked. One of those states is Louisiana, our home state. We live in self-imposed exile from beloved homeland, family, and friends, in part, because of this legal restriction on our ability to live our lives together.

Bret responds

So? So what? Sodomites have chosen their paths. The states also have laws against bestiality and necrophilia and pedophilia. Are we to feel sorry for those deviants all because the laws of the states against that criminal behavior inconveniences said perverts? Sodomy is a criminal behavior. Period. Why should we feel sorry for criminals who are inconvenienced by their criminal behavior being outlawed? The only reason this kind of plea for sympathy works is because people no longer understand sodomy to be a mental illness — something that it was designated as by the American Psychiatric Association until 1973.

Understand that the law in those 29 states is what it is, in part, because that law retains the vestiges of an older law order that was more intimately related to Christianity and so understood the destructive power of sodomy to a well functioning social order. Those laws that are being protested by this writer were put in place in order to protect the family unit because the legislators who passed those laws understood, on some level, that if sodomy were allowed to flourish that would mean the shriveling up of a healthy social order. Sodomy was understood to be a contagion that if allowed to prosper would be a plague upon the whole social order, upon families, and upon children.

And that is precisely what has happened as that contagion has been allowed to spread.

SS

– “In 75 countries in the world, being gay is illegal. In many, the penalty is life in prison. These are countries we can’t openly visit. In 9 countries, being gay is punishable by death. In many others, violence against gays is tacitly accepted by the authorities. These are countries where we would be killed. Killed.”

Bret,

And likewise Scripture called for the death penalty for sodomites.

In my world serial adultery would be illegal and serial adulterers would be penalized with prison. Serial adulterers should have countries they can’t openly visit. All that to say, I don’t think criminalizing sodomy is something that is criminal or is a reality that an enlightened person would or should be put off by. However, because our culture has been so propagandized by the LGBT spin this kind of “feel sorry for me” argument offered above gets traction with people who have more sentimentalism than they do wisdom.

We don’t allow necrophilia. We don’t allow pedophilia (witness Jerry Sandusky). We don’t allow Bestiality. Why should we allow sodomy to flourish in our country? They are all equally deviant.

SS writes,

– “Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.

– Chick-Fil-A has given roughly $5M to these organizations to support their work.

– Chick-Fil-A’s money comes from the profits they make when you purchase their products.”

Bret responds,

And here you see why CFA must be shut down. CFA must be shut down because they have a different standard of ethics than the LGBT crowd has. CFA looks to Scripture for a plumb-line on this issue to determine right and wrong while the LGBT crowd looks to their own perverted autonomous libido to determine right from wrong.

SS,

2. “This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t. There is no “live and let live” on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.

Bret,

I don’t tolerate criminal perverted behavior, and I don’t expect the person who has embraced criminal and perverted behavior to tolerate those who recognize and point out their criminal and perverted behavior. In short, I don’t want mutual tolerance. I want to see perversion stuffed back into the closet. I want to go back to the time when sodomy was “the love that dare not speak it’s name,” as opposed to the current times when sodomy “won’t shut the hell up.”

SS

“Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running up to a bully beating a kid to death on the playground and scolding them both for not getting along. I’m not trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage or make his sex illegal. I’m not trying to make him a second-class citizen, or get him killed. He’s doing that to me, folks; I’m just fighting back.

All your life, you’re told to stand up to bullies, but when WE do it, we’re told WE are the ones being intolerant? Well, okay. Yes. I refuse to tolerate getting my ass kicked. “Guilty as charged.”

But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.

Bret,

Actually, the LGBT crowd is trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage, and all marriages, as they seek to redefine what marriage is. If marriage can mean everything than it means nothing.

However SS is right in that this is not an issue where mutual tolerance can work. The LGBT crowd has made that clear in their attack on heterosexuality in the Government schools. I believe this culture cannot endure, permanently, half sodomite and half heterosexual. This is, as we are increasingly seeing, a irrepressible conflict.

And let us be clear here that it is the criminal perverted sodomites who are the bully in this scenario. Is someone a bully who is merely seeking to defend a non perverted social order? Is someone a bully who seeks to protect and defend his children and family from the sick twisted mindset that drives said sexual perversion?

SS

3. “This isn’t about Jesus. I have a lot of Christian friends. Most of them are of the liberal variety, it’s true, but even this concept seems lost on some of you. Most of them are pro-LGBT rights. Pro-gay and Pro-Christ are NOT mutually exclusive. They never have been, in the history of Christianity, though it’s been difficult at times. It’s not impossible to be both.

If someone is telling you it is, then maybe you should wonder why they’d do that. I see divorced Christians, remarried Christians, drug addict Christians. I see people with WWJD bracelets bumping and grinding on TV and raking in millions to do it. I see greedy, rapacious, vengeful people who are Christians. And these people are accepted in the Church, and the Church does very little to combat them. Sometimes it seems like being gay is the ONLY thing certain modern Christian movements won’t allow. Why’s that, I wonder?

Jesus had almost nothing to say about sexual behavior of any kind. He was too busy teaching more important things. Empathy is at the heart of his teachings. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Remember that? It’s in red. So let’s examine that:

Bret responds,

A.) It is about Jesus. Scripture clearly teaches that sodomy is vile and heinous sin. Granted, so is serial adultery and pride, and cowardice, and sloth, and unbelief and many other peccadilloes, but we are left constantly talking about sodomy precisely because sodomy has become so well organized in its attack on Biblical Christianity and Jesus.

It is about Jesus. Pro-gay, Pro-LGBT rights and pro Jesus are definitely mutually exclusive. Anybody who states anything to the contrary is serving a Jesus cast in their own image and not the Jesus that who has made His mind known in Scripture. It is impossible to be both pro Jesus Christ and pro sodomy.

B.) The reason why the Church has to spend so much time combating buggery is because buggery has become so efficiently organized to advance its cause and has been so successful in its agenda. If there were powerful organizations that taught that pride was pleasing to God and was a positive good, or that lying was pleasing to God and was a positive good, or that adultery was pleasing to God and was a positive good then the Church would have to repeatedly return to castigate such insane, abysmal and non Christian positions.

C.) The fact that there are so many Christians that fail to live up to what they are called to live up to does not give license to the Church to go silent about the sin of sodomy. The fact that the Church wrongly accepts some people’s vile behavior doesn’t mean that it should accept all people’s vile behavior. The failure here isn’t in condemning sodomy. The failure here is in not condemning the other sins that our resident sodomite author lists. It is not unfair that sodomy is singled out as sin simply because it is sin. What is unfair is that the other listed sins are not pointed out. If I get a speeding ticket for going 20 mph over the speed limit while everyone else around me is going 30 mph over the speed limit it is not unfair that I was issued a ticket. I got what I deserved. Just so, even though there are numerous other sins allegedly going on in the Church un=addressed it does not make it unfair if sodomy alone is addressed because sodomy deserves to be addressed even if the other sins wrongly are not addressed.

D.) Jesus did speak to the issue of sexuality with the woman at the well issue in John 4 and with the woman caught in adultery in John 8. In both cases He said or implied it was sin.

E.) Those who oppose sodomy are being empathetic. They are being empathetic towards those who are going to be caught up in the sodomy lifestyle because sodomy is not being opposed. They are being empathetic towards God who has made His mind about sodomy known. Finally, they are being empathetic towards the sodomite because there is no love in turning a blind eye to someone created in the image of God as they destroy themselves.

SS

4. “If things were reversed, I’d stand up for you.

Please think about this: How would you feel if KFC came out tomorrow and said they were spending money against equality for Asian Americans, or African Americans, or religious people? Really. Think about it. What would you do? How would you feel? How would you feel if, after their announcement, there was a big increase in KFC sales and I was all over Facebook supporting KFC. Please stop reading right now and imagine this. I’m serious.

You can stop now because it’s ludicrous. It would never happen.

Oh, I don’t mean the part about KFC being against some group. That COULD happen. I mean the part about me supporting them. Let me tell you something, and you can damn well believe it: I’d sign on for the boycott IMMEDIATELY.

Why? Well, because I believe in equality for all people, that’s why. But also, personally, from the bottom of my heart: because you are my friend, and I don’t willingly support people who harm you for just being you. How could I? How could I, really? But, more importantly for our purposes, how could you?”

Bret responds

A.) Sodomy is not the same as being Asian, African, etc. Scripture nowhere claims that being of a set people group is criminal or perverted. It does point out that sodomy is criminal, perverted, and sin. So, the examples don’t wash.

B.) It is not possible to be against religious people, since by definition all people are religious.

C.) Of course I would be outraged if people were trying to stamp out Christianity just as Christianity is trying to stamp out sodomy. I don’t expect sodomites to not be outraged because they are rightfully being opposed by Christians, and I don’t expect sodomites to not act all wounded and hurt while invoking silly arguments about the roles being reversed.

D.) And we oppose you and support CFA because we love you. I know you can’t see that. I know that it all looks like hate to you given your worldview but if we were to allow you and yours, along with your belief system to conquer then we would sanction your own personal self destruction as well as the destruction of countless other people who will be caught up in your successful attempt to homosexualize this culture. You need help. I know you don’t see that and can’t admit it but the fact is that you need help. Only the forgiveness found in Jesus Christ can deliver you from the unrelieved guilt you are carrying that is driving your behavior. However, you must first admit what you already know and that is your behavior is sin and rebellion against your Creator. If you will admit your sin and repent you can be confident that you will be received by the Christ of the Bible as one who is weary and heavy laden. He will accept you. He will receive you. He will own you as one of His own. But if you will not surrender there is nothing but the promise of fearful judgment being stored up against you.

E.) I don’t believe in equality for all people. I don’t believe in equality for the mass murderer. I don’t believe in equality for the pedophile (Jerry Sandusky) and I don’t believe in equality for those who practice the crime of sodomy.

SS,

Seriously, how could you? What has Chick-Fil-A ever done for you? Sold you some fatty chicken at a ridiculous mark-up? Made you chuckle at semi-literate cartoon cows? You mean more to me than KFC possibly could. If I, in turn, don’t mean more to you than a chicken sandwich from Chik-Fil-A–if my life, my quality of life, and my dignity are such afterthoughts to you that you’d not only refuse the boycott, but go out of your way to support someone who was hurting me? if I let this stand, if I don’t stand up to the bullies and if I let my friends egg the bullies on, what does that make me?

Well, it makes me a Chikin.

Yeah, so suddenly it is cause for anger, ridiculous or not.”

Bret responds,

It is not about a fast food restaurant meaning more to me than you. It is about God’s glory meaning more to me than you. It is about your restoration meaning more to me than your self inflicted destruction. It is about unknown to me children meaning more to me than you — children who are likely to be caught up in your destructive lifestyle all because I was bullied into keeping silent. I will not be bullied and I will not be silent. Your lifestyle is sin and God commands you to repent and I would be unfaithful to Him and you if I just turned a blind eye to the attempt of the LGBT crowd to push God out to the corners of the reality.

SS writes,

“But I’m not going to stop being Facebook friends with anyone over this issue.

Instead, I will remain. And, when you see my face with my partner’s in my profile, maybe you will examine not simply what your opinions are about gay people, or gay marriage, or the first amendment, even; maybe you’ll examine not merely your opinions but your values. What is friendship to you? What is loyalty? How important are human life and dignity to you? Are they more important than fitting in with your social group? Are they more important than loyalty to a corporate brand, or a political party, or some misguided church teaching?

Bret,

It is precisely my values that drives me in all this. Scripture teaches me that “Friendship with the world is enmity towards God,” and right now friendship with you, apart from laying out your abomination, would be enmity (hatred) towards God. What is loyalty you ask. Loyalty is standing for the Creator God’s cause despite your hatred and the world’s hatred for me. I owe Him by loyalty, not you. And you ask about human life and dignity. Well, only God can give life and dignity meaning and your sodomite behavior strips you of the dignity you could have if you would only leave your sin, and in terms of life, well, it is your life that I am pleading for in writing this.

And the Church teaching is only misguided to you because it does not support your perversion.

SS writes,

“That’s why we’re so angry. This is personal for us. There are times in your life when you have the opportunity to stand up for your friends. When you let that opportunity pass, your friends notice. It doesn’t mean we can’t be friends, but it diminishes you, and it diminishes the friendship. That’s how it is, no matter what the issue or what the venue.

So stand up. Stand up for us. Do the right thing. You don’t have to agree with us on everything, but repudiate Chick-Fil-A. Unlike them on Facebook. Withdraw your support for them. Join us in the boycott. If you can’t do that, then please ask yourself whether I’m your friend. In fact, ask yourself whether anyone is.”

Bret responds,

It is more than personal for us. It is about God’s glory, your soul, and the well being of countless others if your belief system and behavior is left unchallenged. The Love of Christ compels us to lift up God’s standard and to oppose you.

The Piper’s Generational Pietistic Advance Against The Kingdom Of Darkness

Circa 2012 — World Magazine

According to Barnabas Piper Homoxexuality is one of the most defining, contentious, and complex issues facing this generation of the church. We cannot sacrifice our biblical convictions but neither can we sacrifice the church’s ability to serve people of opposing viewpoints and lifestyles.

Circa 2030 — Universe Magazine

According to Eutychus Piper (son of Barnabas Piper and Grandson of John Piper) Necrophilia is one of the most defining, contentious, and complex issues facing this generation of the church. We cannot sacrifice our biblical convictions but neither can we sacrifice the church’s ability to serve people of opposing viewpoints and lifestyles.

Circa 2055 — Cosmos Magazine

And according to Nikolai Piper (son or Eutychus, grandson of Barnabas, and Great-Grandson of John Piper) Beastiality is one of the most defining, contentious, and complex issues facing this generation of the church. We cannot sacrifice our biblical convictions but neither can we sacrifice the church’s ability to serve people of opposing viewpoints and lifestyles.

Piper’s Chicken

http://online.worldmag.com/2012/07/31/chick-fil-a-appreciation-day-a-bold-mistake/

“I do not question the motives of Mike Huckabee (in calling to eat at Chick – Fil – A in protest over actions against Chick-Fil-A for their words opposing Sodomy) or those thousands joining him, but what about the wider effects? How is the Kingdom of God served by this? Is Jesus represented well to the gay community and the politicians pandering to them? Marching on Chick-fil-A tomorrow like an army will produce nothing more than defined battle lines, and the result will be greater contention and fewer softened hearts. On both sides.”

Barnabas Piper
World Blog Magazine

How is the Kingdom of God served by this? Uh, maybe the Kingdom of God is served by not acquiescing to being shoved into the closet when Christian truths are uttered that pagans don’t like. Please keep in mind that the reason Chick-Fil-A is being targeted as a business is because they give millions of dollars to pro-family organizations. If Chick-Fil-A is allowed a very public voice against sodomy then it might be the case that other businesses might find the courage to stand up against the plague of sodomy that covers our land. An army descending on Chick-Fil-A in order to show support for both freedom of speech as well as support for Chick-Fil-A in its opposition to sodomy serves the cause of the Kingdom of God.

And as to Piper’s concern about the wider effects. The wider effect is to make clear that Christians oppose sin and sinners and that we won’t go silently into the night despite the agenda of LGBT. Does this idiot Piper really think that people get saved because Christian’s surrender their convictions and retreat before evil?

Oh horror of horror that the consequence would be defined battle lines, or that more contention would result. Doesn’t Piper realize that the LGBT agenda is in control of our schools, our courts, our political parties, and our families? After 50 years of losing our children to the sodomite community and fighting back with the sentimental pietistic nonsense that Piper puts on display isn’t it about time that we start acting like these people are the enemies of Christ and of Christianity? I want more contention. God grant contention in root, branch, and twig with these people. Maybe if the LGBT types clearly see that our love for them is expressed best by opposing their Christ hating agenda they will see that Christ is opposed to them lest they repent. Christ is not wringing His hands in heaven hoping against hope that they will repent. Christ is in full battle garb commanding them to repent or die.

Elsewhere in the same piece Piper says,

Homosexuality is one of the most defining, contentious, and complex issues facing this generation of the church. We cannot sacrifice our biblical convictions but neither can we sacrifice the church’s ability to serve people of opposing viewpoints and lifestyles. The 452,000 people supporting Chick-fil-A are delivering more than one message, and the message the homosexual community and its supporters see is “us versus you.” The event also sends a message of separatism and territorialism in the “reclaiming” of those restaurants that are being boycotted, a collective action easily seen as a shaking of the fist or a wagging of the finger.

Do antichrists desire to be served by Christians? Oh, sure, when they are dying from the eventual flaming out of their lives because of their pursuit of sodomy, we must be there to give them the Gospel on their death beds but the best way the Church can serve the sodomite who is gnashing his teeth at God is by opposing their belief system and those zealots who embrace it from stem to stern.

Also, Piper seems to have lost the century long Reformed staple of the “antithesis.” Of course it is “us against them.” The same “us against them” you find in the blessing of Psalm 1 when we refuse to walk, stand, or sit with the wicked. What Bible is Piper reading? To be sure, we must be as charitable as we can be towards sodomites but part of charity is denouncing their belief system and lifestyle.

And Piper complains against “separatism?” Somebody better remind Piper of the necessity to not be conformed to the world per Romans 12. Was St. Paul being a separatist when he said, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.” (Eph. 5:11)

Piper’s implicit course of action is a denunciation of every Christian in Church History from Charles Martel being territorial at the Battle of Tours, to John Knox calling for separatism from Queen Mary’s belief system.

And again he writes,

‎”So I stand with Dan Cathy in his biblical affirmation of family but I cannot stand with those making a movement out of his beliefs.”

Barnabas Piper
World Magazine Blog

Does that sound anything like this?

So I stand with Jesus Christ in his biblical affirmation of family but I cannot stand with those making a movement out of his beliefs.

Piper’s whole piece is stupidity standing on its head shouting “Look at me.” To follow his counsel is to embrace the self destruction of the Christian faith.