Category: Ethnic considerations

Note — Torba is NOT a Pastor. I confused him w/ his right hand man, Rev. Andrew Isker.

If you remember in Part I we started analyzing this exchange between a high profile Pastor in the CREC, one Rev. Toby Sumpter, and Rev. Andrew Torba.

You may also remember that this exchange finds me as exacerbated as one can possibly imagine. I am gnawing down my fingers in an act of discipline to keep me from writing what I really think about Sumpter’s a-historical, unbiblical, and yes even asinine “reasoning.”

Honestly, I hope these birds like Sumpter and Fakin’ Owen Strachan keep getting out on these limbs because I am going to take maniacal delight in sawing off every branch upon which these stool pigeons, dodo birds, and crows are perched.

Anyway, as you recall the conversation between Torba and Sumpter went like this;

Rev. Andrew Torba wrote;

“God created different ethnic groups. To preserve them is to preserve God’s creation and is therefore an inherent good.”

Rev. Sumpter responded;

“At best this is half-baked primitivism, and at worst it’s a form of incestuous Judaizing and radically misunderstands the Cultural Mandate and Great Commission.

This is like saying God created different kinds of food. To preserve them in their original state is to preserve God’s creation & therefore an inherent good. 

So wine and cheese and tacos are out y’all. Also, no mining, no fossil fuels, no building anything, no medicine — no changing or mixing anything that God made. Leave it raw and untouched just like it was when God said it was good. No fruitful dominion for you.

Despite the idolatry of statist multiculturalism, Christians must do better.”

And now we begin Part II with the second full paragraph dropping from the pen of the genius Rev. Sumpter;

1.) First, there in this matter the consideration of Scripture;

  “Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled. Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together. Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.” 

Dt. 22:9-11

“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.

Leviticus 19:19

Now my point in citing this passage is not to suggest that it proves that the bible forbids cheese, wine and tacos. I cite the passage to demonstrates that God did have an opinion about adulterating, mixing and hybridizing. The point of these passages seems to be that God desired purity among His people and so there is to be no mixture between things that did not belong together. We note this because in the Deut. passage the broader context teaches that God’s people were not to blend what was to stay separate.

Now, I would list these laws as being among the ceremonial laws that were fulfilled with the coming of Christ and so no longer in force. However, I do hold that the commandment given to men themselves not to adulterate (7th Word) remains in force. God’s people are told that they are not to adulterate and to adulterate something is to diminish the purity of that something. Inter-racial marriage is an adulteration of both husband and wife and so when Rev. Torba advocates that ethnic groups be preserved he is giving counsel that is in keeping with the 7th commandment.

2.) Why Rev. Sumpter chose wine, cheese, and tacos is beyond me. It is obviously a non-sequitur. I mean maybe tacos fit since one has to mix lettuce, tomatoes, cheese, sour cream, olives, and hamburger to come up with a taco. If that is where Rev. Sumpter was going, do I have to really spend any time refuting his comparison of apples with lug nuts? Even with tacos though the lettuce remains lettuce and the tomatoes remain tomatoes…etc. When races are mixed nothing remains what it was prior to the adulteration.

3.) However, I’ll make a deal with Rev. Sumpter. If old Toby will give up advocating race-mixing I’ll give up cheese, wine and tacos. What do you say Tobe? Is it a deal?

(Since people in the CREC are demonstrating lately that they have no sense of humor allow me to say on #3 that I am joking. I will never give up wine, cheese, and tacos.)

4.) That Scripture and reason teach that race/ethnicities should be preserved it does not mean that peanut butter and chocolate cannot be mixed or that it is a sin to have a PB&J sandwich. Old Toby’s  attempt at a reductio ad absurdum here was, shall we say, absurd?  I mean by Toby’s reasoning because God forbids adulterating therefore married men and women should not be intimate because that requires a unholy mixing.

5.) Finally Old Toby insists that Christians must do better than Rev. Torba’s statement.

And here I am still waiting for someone to do better because Old Toby sure didn’t rise to the occasion.

“Dude, You Just Went Full Retard.”

 Character Kirk Lazarus 
 2008 comedy film Tropic Thunder 

I have somehow entered an alternate universe as discovered by Dr. Stephen Strange when exploring the multiverse. In this universe there is absolutely no correlation between the usage of language and logic. Almost anything can be said that leaves the inhabitants of this alternate universe completely unphased. It’s like they all speak a different language each having their own decoder headset.

Below is a conversation I stumbled across between Rev. Andrew Torba and Rev. Toby Sumpter. Torba is a good man fighting on the side of the angels. Sumpter is an idiot as seen in this exchange below.

I am told that Sumpter is something of Doug Wilson’s right hand man these days. I have to wonder if when Doug sees exchanges like this if he doesn’t go all “double face palm.” Does Doug experience “cringe” at conversations like what we find below? Does Doug start looking around to see if Stephen Sittler or Alfred E. Newman (he of MAD MAGAZINE fame) might be able to replace Sumpter?

This is sooooooooo bad.

Rev. Andrew Torba writes;

“God created different ethnic groups. To preserve them is to preserve God’s creation and is therefore an inherent good.”

Bret interjects;

Now before we turn to Rev. Sumpter’s response to Rev. Torba let us take just a second to realize that what Rev. Torba has said above has been the position of the church for 2000 years. This is clearly and unequivocally proven by Achord and Dow’s anthology; “Who is my Neighbor; An Anthology of Natural Relations.” (Have I mentioned lately that to date nobody has refuted this book and only one CREC clergy nincompoop has even tried and what a goulash he made of that attempt.

Anyway, after Rev. Torba made that comment above Rev. Toby Sumpter weighed in and I think this response deserves as wide as publication as possible. Sumpter replied;

“At best this is half-baked primitivism, and at worst it’s a form of incestuous Judaizing and radically misunderstands the Cultural Mandate and Great Commission.

This is like saying God created different kinds of food. To preserve them in their original state is to preserve God’s creation & therefore an inherent good. 

So wine and cheese and tacos are out y’all. Also, no mining, no fossil fuels, no building anything, no medicine — no changing or mixing anything that God made. Leave it raw and untouched just like it was when God said it was good. No fruitful dominion for you.

Despite the idolatry of statist multiculturalism, Christians must do better.”

Just when I think I’ve found the bottom of CREC stupidity, Toby Sumpter steps up to the plate to tell me that I believe that Cheese, Wine, and Tacos must be out of bounds because I am a Kinist.

1.) Maintaining and preserving ethnic distinctions is incestuous Judaism?

Well, I guess Rev. Sumpter must conclude that St. Cyprian was guilty of incestuous Judaism;

“If it is a source of joy and glory to men to have children like unto themselves — and it is more agreeable to have begotten an offspring then when the remaining progeny responds to the parent with like lineaments — how much greater is the gladness of God the Father, when any one is so spiritually born that in his acts and praises the divine eminence of race [genus] is announced!”

Dow and Achord note about this quote, “Cyprian’s argument presupposes that it is proper and fitting for men to take such joy, and hence that it is improper and unfitting for men to neglect the value of lineal similitude or, worse, to positively value dissimilitude.”

And according to Rev. Sumpter, St. Augustine is a practitioner of incestuous Judaism;

“Difference of race or condition of sex is indeed taken away by the unity of the faith, but it remains imbedded in our mortal interactions, and in the journey of this life the apostles themselves teach that it is to be respected and they even proposed living in accord with the racial differences between Jews and Greeks as a wholesome rule.”

St. Augustine
Epistle to Galatians (3:28-29)

And Aquinas guilty of incestuous Judaism?

“God holds first place, for He is supremely excellent, and is for us the first principle of being and government. In the second place, the principles of our being and government are our parents and country, that have given us birth and nourishment. Consequently, man is debtor chiefly to his parents and country, after God. Wherefore, just as it belongs to religion to give worship to one’s parents and one’s country [i.e. — one’s people]. The worship due to our parents includes the worship given to all our kindred, since our kinfolk are those who descend from the same parents.”

Summa Theologica
Vol. III, Part II, Second Section

John Calvin guilty of incestuous Judaizing?

You betcha;

“Delightful to every one is his native soil, and it is also delightful to dwell among one’s own people… all his relatives and the nation from which he sprang.”

Commentary on Jeremiah 9:2

Puritan Thomas Wilson? Yep… he was a incestuous Judaizer;

“What do ye call natural affections?

Such as be among them of one blood and kindred, as between parents and children, husbands and wives, kindred, country, heathens, yea Christians also voice of these.

How does it differ from human and Christian affection?

Human affection is that whereby we embrace all men; natural affection is that where by we embrace them which are nearer unto us by blood; Christian affection is that whereby we love good men because they belong to Christ.”

A Commentary on the Most Divine Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans
3rd Edition. 1653, Chapter 1, page 54

I have pages and pages of quotes like this. I can demonstrate that per Toby Sumpter that the following men were guilty of incestuous Judaism.

Edwards
Winthrop
Althusius
Knox

By crackey, it would be easier to tell you who in church history has not been an incestuous Judaizer. At best this accusation is ignorant on stilts. At worse Sumpter was born with a birth defect in his ability to reason. You decide for yourself.

Let’s round off with one of my favorite from A. W. Tozer;

Next our brilliant Sumpter steps up to the mic and tells us that Rev. Torba radically misunderstands the Great Commission and the Cultural Mandate. Indeed his brilliance is so effulgent I can barely read his words for the brightness of their glory;

Here we go again…

Did N.T. scholar Martin Wyngaarden misunderstand the Great Commission and the Cultural Mandate when he offered:

“More than a dozen excellent commentaries could be mentioned that all interpret Israel as thus inclusive of Jew and Gentile, in this verse, — the Gentile adherents thus being merged with the covenant people of Israel, though each nationality remains distinct.”

“For, though Israel is frequently called Jehovah’s People, the work of his hands, his inheritance, yet these three epithets severally are applied not only to Israel, but also to Assyria and to Egypt: “Blessed be Egypt, my people, and Assyria, the work of my hands, and Israel, mine inheritance.” 19:25.

Thus the highest description of Jehovah’s covenant people is applied to Egypt, — “my people,” — showing that the Gentiles will share the covenant blessings, not less than Israel. Yet the several nationalities are here kept distinct, even when Gentiles share, in the covenant blessing, on a level of equality with Israel. Egypt, Assyria, and Israel are not nationally merged. And the same principles, that nationalities are not obliterated, by membership in the covenant, applies, of course, also in the New Testament dispensation.”

Martin Wyngaarden
The Future of the Kingdom in Prophecy and Fulfillment: A Study of the Scope of “Spiritualization” in Scripture — pp. 101-102.

How about Dr. Geerhardus Vos? Did he also misunderstand the Great Commission and the Cultural Mandate?

“Nationalism, within proper limits, has the divine sanction; an imperialism that would, in the interest of one people, obliterate all lines of distinction is everywhere condemned as contrary to the divine will. Later prophecy raises its voice against the attempt at world-power, and that not only, as is sometimes assumed, because it threatens Israel, but for the far more principal reason, that the whole idea is pagan and immoral.

Now it is through maintaining the national diversities, as these express themselves in the difference of language, and are in turn upheld by this difference, that God prevents realization of the attempted scheme… [In this] was a positive intent that concerned the natural life of humanity. Under the providence of God each race or nation has a positive purpose to serve, fulfillment of which depends on relative seclusion from others.”

-Geerhardus Vos,
Biblical Theology

Again, in the words of Captain Steve Rogers, “I can do this all day.”

Next the genius Sumpter comes up with analogy;

“This is like saying God created different kinds of food. To preserve them in their original state is to preserve God’s creation & therefore an inherent good.”

We will pick that up in part II.

In an interesting and happy confluence of events that really makes the point well that Doug Wilson, Crosspolitic podcast, and the CREC in general are out to lunch when it comes to the ability to properly analyzing our cultural moment we find a happening in Ohio recently sticking out its tongue at Doug’s insistence that Jew malice (left undefined) will not be tolerated as combined with Crosspolitic’s recent podcast starring Nate Wilson, Chocolate Knox, and Aaron Wrench where we hear that the Jewish question (JQ) must not even be discussed because it is so uncivilized, nekulturny and frankly, “not pleasing to Jesus.”

Then in God’s wonderful providence what should happen but a Republican Congressman in Ohio decides to denounce a fellow Ohio Republican for being “bigoted,” because a fellow Republican tweeted on Tuesday that  there is;

“no hope for any of us outside of having faith in Jesus Christ alone.”

Congressman Miller’s exact words to his fellow Republican Marbach were;

“This is one of the most bigoted tweets I have ever seen. Delete it, Lizzie,”  “Religious freedom in the United States applies to every religion. You have gone too far.”

Miller, having not yet clearly communicated his position also posted on social media;

Now the kicker for the CREC types out there is that Ohio Republican Congressman Miller who condemned the above statement is Jewish. So we find someone with political power condemning Christianity 101 as being bigoted. Now, Congressman Miller finally did say “I’m sorry” and mumbled some words about his statement not being what he intended to say (Yeah, Right) but clearly all of this should be driving at least some conversation about the JQ. I mean if a Muslim Congress critter had said what Miller said can you imagine the response? Indeed Muslim Congress critters have said scurrilous things against Jewish people lately and there were all kinds of hue and cry to officially censor them in Congress. Why isn’t Dougie and the Crosspolitics guys and the CREC Doug wannabees declaring that we should not talk about the Muslim Question (MQ)?

But don’t quit reading because this JQ story gets even better. Sometime in the last 36 hours or so the Ohio Right to Life dismissed communications director Elizabeth Marbach from her position. Do keep in mind that it was Marbach who made the “disgustingly bigoted tweed about how being saved by Christ alone is our only hope,” to which Jewish Congressman Miller had so strenuously objected.

Did we mention that Jewish Congressman Max Miller’s possibly Jewish wife sits on the board of the Ohio Right to Life’s organization?