Category: God’s Abiding Law

It is true that the first use of the law is still applicable to the Christian. The Christians hears the law and realizes his need for Christ and realizing that Christ is his only hope for what the law requires he rises in gratitude that Christ has given him a salvation that not be can improved upon to live an increasingly, though a never perfectly obedient life. The believer, living in the Spirit, walks in the Spirit, as they take heed to what God requires of His people as it comes to us via the third use of the law. We must never give up either the first use or the third use of the law for the Christian. To give up the first use would make us legalists trusting in our own performance instead of Christ’s performance for us. To give up the third use would make us antinomian, denying that we’ve been called to be a Holy people.

Bud Powell objects,

Did you read what I wrote, Bret? The law has the same relation to sanctification as it has to justification, by it is the knowledge of sin. But the thermometer does not cure the fever. Only Christ can cure. Moses points to Christ; Christ does not point to Moses, for when we have come to Him, we have come to the fullness of God.

A good work is one done in faith, according to the law of God, and for the glory of God as the HC says. But what has this to do with the heart? Until you can show me that good works sanctify and melt the hard heart, I will not subscribe to the idea that grace justifies and the law sanctifies.

But as I said before, good luck with this idea. It has been tried before with the same results. The flesh always produces the same fruit. I put on Christ and put off Adam; I don’t put off Adam so I can put on Moses.”

Bret responds,

Bud,

No one is saying that the law is a cure for sin in the life of the redeemed sinner. Obviously that will never do. What is being said is that the grace filled Christians, overflowing w/ gratitude for the redeeming work of Christ move out in Holy Spirit given grace to increasingly become all that they have freely been declared to be. As they increasingly become all that they have freely been declared to be the Spirit, through the preaching of the third use of the law brings to their consciousness how it is that can live in such a way as to please Him, who never ceases to be pleased w/ them for the sake of Christ. Grace and law are not in absolute antithesis for the redeemed believer. It is the work of grace to bring to the believer the law so that he may increasingly conform to Christ and it is the work of grace to cause the believer to understand that his increasingly and never adequate obedience is the consequence of grace and not the cause of grace.

Grace and law are not in absolute antithesis for the believer.

By the way Bud, what do you think of this quote from Westminster Divine Samuel Bolton?

The law sends us to the Gospel that we may be justified; and the Gospel sends us to the law again to inquire what is our duty as those who are justified.

Bud Powell continues the conversation,

But how does Hodge differ from what I said? By the law is the knowledge of sin. But Rushdoony put an antithesis between grace and law, saying that justification is by grace and purpose, sanctification is by law. That is flat wrong, for the law is necessary for justification to bring the knowledge and conviction of sin, and faith and grace is necessary for sanctification. We can no more be sanctified by law-keeping than we can be justified. It confuses cause and effect. Even the holiest of men have only a small beginning in obedience [HC]

Predestination is to be conformed to the image of Christ; is this not sanctification, and is not all of predestination by grace through faith and the renewal of the Holy Ghost? It is the dichotomy in Rush’s words that permeated theonomy that I object to and did years ago.

It is being joined to Christ though HIs Spirit, signified in the broken bread and cup of the Lord Supper, that nourishes my soul to life eternal; that’s why Paul could glory in the Cross of Christ by which he was crucified unto the world and the world unto him [sanctification]. The diagnostic tool is not the cure. The law is diagnostic, bit is the blood of Christ which cleanses us from all sin as we confess. [1John 1–sanctification]

Galatians is emphatically not about an error justification, but an error in sanctification. Are you made perfect by the law? having begun in Christ.

Bret responds,

Bud I think you are not accurate here.

You will have to show me where Rushdoony says that sanctification is by law apart from grace. Peter gives one sentence above but to suggest by this one sentence RJR believed in sanctification by a law that has nothing to do w/ grace is to read to much into one sentence.

Here is one example from Rushdoony that counters your assertion that Rushdoony believed that sanctification was by law apart from grace.

Man’s salvation and sanctification [the process of becoming holy] are acts of God’s grace, not human effort” (Leviticus, p. 54).

Who has denied that faith and grace are necessary for sanctification? Will you deny that sincere though inadequate obedience to God’s law is part of sanctification? We are to put off the old man and put on the new man. Being dead to sin we are not longer to live in sin. The HC does say we have only a small beginning in obedience (but we do begin) but then it goes on to say ‘nevertheless, with earnest purpose Christians do begin to live not only according to some but to all the commandments of God.” Did you forget the second sentence Bud? Sanctification includes the grace to increasingly obey God’s law, and we can’t increasingly obedient if the law is not our standard informing us as to what obedience looks like.

Yes all of predestination is by grace through faith as by the Spirits gracious renewing work within us we increasingly conform to God’s law realizing all the while that even our best obedience must have the righteousness of Christ imputed to it in order to be acceptable before the Father. Your objection is misplaced Bud and your explanations seemingly lead to antinomianism.

Once again in this note you put a antithesis between the work of Christ for me that is outside of me and the work of the Spirit of Christ within me renewing me. The Spirit takes me to Christ to remind me of the unlimited free Grace won for me in His finished work on the Cross and Christ takes me back to the gracious law so as to know how to live for His glory. Christ nourishes my soul to life eternal and being nourished I work out my salvation with fear and trembling by learning what pleases God by meditating on His law both day and night.

Galatians is emphatically an error in justification. If they had believed that they were made perfect by Christ (justification) they would not have tried to be made perfect by the law.

I plead w/ you to re-think your theology. Shall we go on sinning that grace might increase?

Paul Castelleno (PC)

(Who in another post from this thread reminded everyone he was a graduate of Westminster East.)

“The reason that there is such antipathy towards theonomy, at least from the conversations I’ve had with Historically Reformed people is:

a) Theonomy is the flip side of Dispensationalism – Dispys’ make too much of a distinction between the Church and Israel and theonomists draw virtually no distinction at all.”

Bret (who is not a graduate of Westminster) responds,

This is the kind of statement that one would expect to find coming from an enemy of Theonomists. It is on the same level of the accusations against the early Church that because they took communion they were cannibals.

It is ridiculous to suggest that Theonomy makes virtually no distinction between the Church and Israel. Have you been to a Church service conducted by a Theonomist where he made a sacrifice? Have you been to a Church service conducted by a Theonomist where he insisted that he was a Priest?

What is at the core of this fallacious charge? Could it be that at the core of this fallacious charge is PC’s latent antinominaism? The only reason that Theonomy is scurrilously accused of making virtually no distinction between Israel and the Church is because, unlike antinomianism, Theonomy takes God’s third use of the Law seriously.

PC

“b) Though Bahnsen, Rushdoony, North, et al, have tried, there is no rationally, Biblically, theologically, consistent exegesis that has demonstrated the viability of theonomy today.”

Bret responds,

That a graduate of Westminster could write something like this is absolutely mind numbing. Has he never heard of Bahnsen’s Theonomy and Christian Ethics? Now of course our earnest Westminster grad will insist that this has been refuted … but by whom? Who was convinced by the refutation? The antinomians? Certainly not the Theonomists. J. Ligon Duncan has tried his hand at refutation but his refutation has been itself refuted. There is tons of rationally, Biblically, theologically, consistent exegesis that has demonstrated the viability of theonomy today.

PC

“c) When theonomists require Old Covenant Jewish casuistry and penal sanctions to be a part of the New Covenant, they generally give us the impression that they re-interpret what and how God manifests His grace in the New Covenant. Theonomy gives the impression that there is no recognition of the fact that the Old Covenant was a Bloody Covenant and the New Covenant is a Bloodless Covenant (post crucification of course).”

Bret Responds,

This is the kind of statement that we could expect from a Marcionite. Implicit in this statement is a challenge to God’s immutability. Underlying this statement is the idea that in the OT God was a meanie but in the NT God changed and is now a kinder and Gentler God. So whereas in Paul’s (b) we had implicit antinomianism in Paul’s (c) we have latent Marcionism.

And while not trying to be too snarky you’d think that somebody that touts his Westminister pedigree would know how to spell “C-R-U-C-I-F-I-X-I-O-N.”

Are we to seriously believe that all because Theonomist suggest that God’s penology should still apply that some how proves that Theonomy believes that the New and Better covenant is still a covenant that requires ongoing blood rights in order to have communion w/ God? By this reasoning anybody who believes in any capital punishment at all could be accused of not recognizing the fact that the Old Covenant is a blood covenant and the new covenant is bloodless. Really, this statement betrays more than a large dollop of ignorance.

PC

“d) What eventually arises when one has protracted conversations with theonomists (in my experience) is a type of evangelism via execution! The long suffering and patience of God – allowing unbelievers to heap judgment upon their own heads – seems to give way to immediate, divine retribution and judgment. Which makes one wonder, what then did Jesus accomplish after all if there is no propitiating God at these points?”

Bret Responds,

This is nothing but slander. This is nothing but a violation of the ninth commandment. Does our Westminster graduate really believe that Theonomists believe in evangelism by execution? Once again, if this reasoning is pressed then we must never execute for fear of violating the long suffering and patience of God. Notice the implicit Marcionism again. In the OT God was not patient and long suffering but in the NT now God is patient and long suffering.

No Theonomist wants divine retribution and judgment to be any more or less immediate than it has ever been.

In the final italicized question in (d) above we find ourselves asking when did the Reformed Church go liberal? Does the writer really believe that Jesus propitiated the sins of criminals that commit capital crimes so that capital crimes don’t have to be visited with the sword because Jesus already took the penalty for the consequences of sinners who commit capital crimes?

Finally, how long would our Westminster graduate suggest that sinners should be allowed to heap judgment on their own heads until their capital crimes are visited with punishment. How many repeat offenses of capital crimes must we turn the other cheek over before we actually visit the crimes with their revealed penalties? Some details here would be nice to have.

PC

“e) Lastly (and I can go on), it appears to wreak havoc with any Reformed notion of Common Grace.”

Bret responds,

Gary North has written extensively on this subject affirming Common grace in the sense that God gives gifts to the reprobate though denying that God overall the gifts turn out to show God’s favor. Besides, there are whole tribes of Reformed Christians who deny Common Grace. Has the embrace of Common grace now become a shibboleth that one must speak in order to be considered Reformed?

If I were to reason as our Westminster Grad has reasoned I might say something like … “Embracing Common Grace wreaks havoc w/ any Reformed notion of being Reformed.

Dear Pastor,

What does the phrase, “General Equity,” such as we find in the Westminster Confession Of Faith in 19:4 mean?

As I understand it, the General Equity answers the question as to how the Old Testament civil law is to be applied in the Nations today and perhaps the best analogy for understanding it is the metaphor of kernel and husk. The general equity advocates the idea that the husk of the Old Testament civil law is discarded but the kernel of the matter remains. So, in the classic example, the requirement of fences being built around roof tops in the OT finds the husk of the requirement expired while the kernel of protecting your neighbor remains in a law, for example, that insists on building a fence around your pool. So, “general equity” means to find valid and obligatory the principle articulated in the civil law, keeping in mind that the civil law was nothing but God incarnating His moral law into every day life.

Remember, the conviction is that the civil law was merely the case law of the moral law. Much as our Supreme Court makes decisions applying the Constitution to the cases that comes before it, God’s given civil law was God applying His Constitution (i.e.– The moral law — Decalogue), in concrete ways, to the society in which His people lived. Now, obviously we no longer live in an agrarian B.C. culture, and so much of the husk of the civil law remains behind, however, what the case law was aiming at in principle remains… and it remains only because it was a true flowering of God’s Moral Law. When we advocate for the general equity we are advocating for God’s own application of the moral law, as He revealed it in the OT Civil Law, for our era.

“Over the last decade I have witnessed more slurs and misrepresentations of Reconstructionist thought than I have the heart or ability to count, and I am thinking here only of the remarks made by Christians in positions of leadership; elders, pastors, instructors, writers – those who bear the “greater accountability” since they lead Christ’s sheep as teachers. This has forced me as an educated believer to stand back and look more generally at what is transpiring in the Christian community as a whole with respect to its scholarly integrity. And I am heart broken…..The difficulty is magnified many times over when believers offer public, obvious evidence of their inability to treat each other’s opinions with careful accuracy….Over the last decade we have seen some extremely strong words of condemnation uttered about Reconstructionist theology. Those condemnatory words, however, have repeatedly proven to be tied to gross misrepresentations of the Reconstructionist perspective. When those counterfeit portrayals are laid aside, the cautious student will find that not one substantial line of refutation or criticism has been established against the fundamental distinctives of Reconstructionism – a transformational worldview embracing theonomic ethics, postmillennial eschatology, and presuppositional apologetics. These theological underpinnings can be shown to be sound and reliable.”

Dr. Greg Bahnsen
Foreword to The Debate Over Christian Reconstruction

Zrimec writes,

The rather clear message is that serious punishments for serious crimes are somehow to be almost relished. I find this odd and disturbing.

Certainly there should exist a certain sadness that it has come to the point where a serious punishment has to be meted out against a serious criminal, however having admitted that there should be sadness that it has come to this, we should relish whenever justice, as God defines justice, is meted out. What, does Zrimec think that we should somehow lament that justice is being done or that God’s law is being honored?

Steve Zrimec needs to read Edwards where he preaches on and on about this subject in terms of God’s justice seen at the last day. Edward’s had no problems whatsoever relishing in God’s justice being seen.

What we have here are people who are more pious than God. If God rejoices and relishes in His law being upheld should we not rejoice and relish with him? Are we more pious than God?

Steve Zrimec,

When a judge hands down a capital sentence (something with which I have no problem per se) it seems to me the fitting and wise posture would be less relish and more sobriety. Any wise judge who has a sense of what is right, true and good will tell you it gives him or her no pleasure to have to conclude a heinous matter with an equally heinous sentence. It actually causes more pain and confusion. There is nothing “beautiful and glorious” about any of it. And wise victims know the same thing.

This is mere liberal hand wringing over the sadness of what is happening to the victim (criminal) while forgetting how the criminal has violated God’s glory by violating God’s just standard. Does Steve expect me to weep when a child rapist and murderer is sentenced with a just sentence? No, I will not weep, but I will relish that the criminal has been handed down a sentence that fits the crime. I am not taking delight that the person became a criminal or that the criminal is going to be vanquished, but I am taking delight and relishing in the fact that justice is being done. Indeed, there is only one thing that could make me relish the sentence even more and that is if the criminal repented and trusted Christ before the just sentence was visited upon him.

Steve and Darryl, are both caught up in feeling sorry for the criminal while forgetting both the human victim and the assault on God’s glory that the criminal attacked in the crime committed. Steve and Darryl would have us weep over justice, in a criminal setting, being upheld.

Now, the typical comeback to this is that … “Well, we are sinners to and we deserve death as well, and so we should be slow about being too delighted with justice.” This statement confuses matters. One can still be delighted with justice while praying that grace visits the criminal before the sentence is passed on them. Personally, I believe it is wicked not to delight in God’s justice being upheld in criminal settings.

Steve Zrimec wrote,

“To love the law of God is not the same as to relish its doling out.”

This is just plain stupid.

This is like saying … “I love the law of God but I hate seeing it applied.”

Steve Zrimec,

Moreover, and again, the OT laws being cited here have not to do with creating the Good Society. They have to do with what it means to work out our salvation by God in the person and work of Jesus. Those are two very different things. Those who want the Good Society convey a chilling relish, one that should demand a lot more outrage than has been seen here (and I’m not given to outrage). Those who understand this was all a typological pointing to God’s salvation of his people show, well, a more careful handling of the matter.

Zrimec assumes what he has not yet proved. The moral law and the case law was about creating the good society. The moral law and the case law was fulfilled in Christ but the Scripture never teach that the moral law and the general equity of the case law was abrogated. Steve assumes all this but this is the matter under contention.

But at least we are beginning to see the reasons for all the competing outrage. Steve apparently believes that he has muted his outrage. I know that I have muted mine. I believe Steve and Darryl are public square anti-nomian heretics who show their despising of God and His grace by their despising of God’s Holy Law. They likewise have a equally low estimate of me. It is obvious that we are serving different Gods.

Zrimec,

“So if it’s a confession that God’s law were wise and glorious, no problem. Just be sure it is understood that such a confession is not as one who quests the Good Society, but rather as one who is a miserable sinner whose only help is in the name of the Lord our God, who made heaven and earth.”

Steve, seems to think he gets brownie points for admitting he is a miserable sinner. Nobody here disagrees with the fact that either Steve is or they themselves are miserable sinners. That is not the issue under discussion. The issue under discussion is … “Who’s Laws should we be ruled by?” Zrimec and Hart, being more pious than God, desire to be ruled by Natural law. Those who honor the plain meaning of Scripture desire to honor God’s law. Nobody gets brownie points for admitting they are sinners.

These people disgust me. They really do.

And I am glad that I disgust them.