The following is a response to this,
Do you see why the wise are telling you that Obergefell vs. Hodges is the end of marriage having any stable meaning?
Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne, Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown, Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
The following is a response to this,
Do you see why the wise are telling you that Obergefell vs. Hodges is the end of marriage having any stable meaning?
“The Constitution promises liberty to all within its reach, a liberty that includes certain specific rights that allow persons, within a lawful realm, to define and express their identity.”
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
Kennedy found a Constitutional right that allows persons to define and express their identity? Paging Albert Camus.
The Constitution supports Existentialism? The Constitutional defies the notion that human beings have a set nature? The Constitution as Existentialist Anthropology? Is this written by Anthony Kennedy or by Jean Paul Sartre?
Who could have known?
______________
“The Constitution promises liberty to all within its reach, a liberty that includes certain specific rights that allow persons, within a lawful realm, to define and express their identity.”
A few sentences later,
“And their (sodomite) immutable nature dictates that same-sex marriage is their only real path to this profound commitment.”
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
1.) First they themselves are defining and expressing their identity. Then, a few sentences later we find out about their “immutable nature.” How does someone both define their identity while at the same time possessing an immutable nature? If they are defining their identity they cannot have an immutable nature. If they have an immutable nature their identity has already been defined for them. Contradict much Mad Anthony?
2.) This can only make sense, it seems, if we construe that Kennedy’s theology is anthropocentric, and his Deity is inter-subjective. Just as the Lord God is both creative and immutable, triggering change in a universe which he both transcends and pervades, so too, for Kennedy, the Almighty Individual sodomite is both creative and unchanging in his unsearchable ways. He announces to the world, “I AM, I said!” And so speaks himself into existence. Who art thou, o critic, to question what the sovereign sodomite does? Fortunately we have judges like Mad Anthony to clarify these conundrums for us, the uninitiated. (Hat Tip — Habakkuk Mucklewrath on this one.)
____________________
Indeed, changed understandings of marriage are characteristic of a Nation where new dimensions of freedom become apparent to new generations, often through perspectives that begin in pleas or protests and then are considered in the political sphere and the judicial process.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
Cultural relativism anybody? Social Evolution? Truth as a social construct?
_____________________
The Court, like many institutions, has made assumptions defined by the world and time of which it is a part.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges Opinion
Pure historicism. Hegel’s “Universal Spirit.” Truth is ever evolving. Criminals in one generation are the leading indicators for and those who anticipate the definition of Saints in the next generation.
Of course, all of this is a reflection of the legal theory of legal positivism.
________________
“The nature of marriage is that, through its enduring bond, two persons together can find other freedoms, such as expression, intimacy, and spirituality. This is true for all persons, whatever their sexual orientation. “
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
1.) Would you mind too terribly Mad Anthony if you could site your epistemological source for this insight?
2.) Why only two persons Mad Anthony? Why not 3 or 4 or a bakers dozen?
3.) And by what requirement two persons? An enlightened view of marriage requires us to allow for two horses and a trans-gendered lesbian woman entering into marriage if that is how she has created her self identity.
4.) Kennedy, by restricting the number entering into marriage, as well as the kind of beasts that can enter into marriage with one person, is obviously struggling with the residual remains of his Christian upbringing.
__________________
Marriage responds to the universal fear that a lonely person might call out only to find no one there. It offers the hope of companionship and understanding and assurance that while both still live there will be someone to care for the other.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
If Mad Anthony ever tires of writing legal briefs as a member of SCOTUS he has a future in Harlequin Romance novels.
Really, this kind of sentimental tripe in a SCOTUS legal brief?
_______________________
The limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples may long have seemed natural and just, but its inconsistency with the central meaning of the fundamental right to marry is now manifest. With that knowledge must come the recognition that laws excluding same-sex couples from the marriage right impose stigma and injury of the kind prohibited by our basic charter.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
Now there exists a fundamental right to marry?
And to think, all those lost years when our forebears thought that boys go with girls in marriage while thinking it only seemed natural and just. Poor besotted fools.
___________________________
The right to marry is fundamental as a matter of history and tradition, but rights come not from ancient sources alone. They rise, too, from a better informed understanding of how constitutional imperatives define a liberty that remains urgent in our own era. Many who deem same-sex marriage to be wrong reach that conclusion based on decent and honorable religious or philosophical premises, and neither they nor their beliefs are disparaged here. But when that sincere, personal opposition becomes enacted law and public policy, the necessary consequence is to put the imprimatur of the State itself on an exclusion that soon demeans or stigmatizes those whose own liberty is then denied. Under the Constitution, same-sex couples seek in marriage the same legal treatment as opposite-sex couples, and it would disparage their choices and diminish their personhood to deny them this right.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
1.) “Rights come not from ancient sources alone” — Clearly a swipe at the Christian Scriptures. So, rights do not come from God alone? Well, what other God is there to give rights if not man?
2.) “Better informed understanding” — those poor poor fools of the past who were not bright enough to have the better informed understanding of this brilliant current generation.
3.) We’re not disparaging you or your beliefs as wrong in the least. We are just saying that you did not have the “better informed understanding” that we have. No disparagement at all here.
4.) So, Christian beliefs as enacted law should not be but the religious beliefs of sodomites should be enacted law?
5.) Is it ever proper to stigmatize or disparage any sexual self identity Mad Anthony? Should we stigmatize Bestiality? Should we disparage Pedophilia? Should we consider Necrophilia taboo? Remember Justice Kennedy you have created a right of self identity in this decision.
In a sane world, Justice Mad Anthony Kennedy would be committed to an insane asylum.
_______________
Were the Court to stay its hand to allow slower, case-by-case determination of the required availability of specific public benefits to same-sex couples, it still would deny gays and lesbians many rights and responsibilities intertwined with marriage.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
This is just another way of paraphrasing Abraham Lincoln when he said that, “I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free.“ Only this time Kennedy is saying that the this government cannot remain half sodomite and half non-sodomite.
___________________________
Finally, it must be emphasized that religions, and those who adhere to religious doctrines, may continue to advocate with utmost, sincere conviction that, by divine precepts, same-sex marriage should not be condoned. The
First Amendment ensures that religious organizations and persons are given proper protection as they seek to teach the principles that are so fulfilling and so central to their lives and faiths, and to their own deep aspirations to
continue the family structure they have long revered.
Anthony Kennedy
Obergefell vs. Hodges
Tell that to the Photographers, the Bakers, the Florists and others who have been put out of business because they tried to adhere to their religious doctrines. Tell that to those who have refuse to condone sodomite marriage by refusing to do business with sodomites in celebrating their “marriage.” Where is you proper protection now Mad Anthony?
______________
The important thing to keep in mind folks is that with this Obergefell vs. Hodges decision what SCOTUS has done is not primarily to allow sodomite marriage. What it has done is to create a legal category and Constitutional underpinning of the right to “self identity.” Self identity is the umbrella category that has been created that thus allows sodomite marriage to fall under. The possible repercussions of this is the destruction of law. If self identity is all that is required in order to garner recognized rights then no law can be written that could possibly fence in the privileges of “self-identity.” This decision erases the whole idea of “the rule of law,” and places us clearly in the twilight realm of the law of men. What happens when one self identity clashes with another self identity? No stable law can tell us that. Only the whim of men can sort that out and only guessing could be used as a guide to the outcome.
Let’s apply this. Let’s say that a child self identifies as an adult and an adult self identifies as a child. Now lets say that these two people are caught having sex. In this case it is the child who self identifies as the adult who is the pedophile. Outrageous you say?
So was the idea of sodomite marriage 40 years ago.
Statutory rape is a thing of the past. You’re 14 year old daughter is caught fornicating with her 19 year old boyfriend. Missy simply says, “I self identify as 21.”
“The Sword of Justice, Madam, is God’s, and is given to princes and rulers for one end. If they fail in their duty and spare the wicked, then those who intervene and deal out the requisite punishment will not offend God. Nor are those who restrain kings from striking innocent men committing any sin, as numerous Biblical example demonstrate. In Scotland, judges are empowered by Act of Parliament to seek out and punish those who celebrate Mass, and it is your duty, Madam, to support them. Ye should therefore consider what it is that your subjects expect from you, and what it is that ye ought to do unto them by mutual contract. They are bound to obey you and that not but in God. Ye are bound to keep laws unto them. Ye crave of them service: they crave of you protection and defence against wicked doers. Now, Madam, if ye shall deny your duty unto them…think ye to receive full obedience of them? I fear, Madam, ye shall not.”
John Knox
Interview w/ Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots
Teaching us on the proper disposition to Magistrates
_______________
Here is Luther. In fairness, I’m told that Luther had a change of heart after 1530. Still, this provides an interesting contrast.
“Thus one has to suffer the power of a prince. If he misuses his power one should not turn one’s back on him, nor take revenge, nor punish him actively. One has to be obedient to him solely for the sake of God, because he is in God’s place.”
Evangelium am 23
Sonntag nach Trinitas
“Even if the magistrate is wicked and unjust there should be no excuse for rioting or rebellion. For not everybody has the right to punish wickedness; only the secular authorities in the possession of the sword.”
Ermahung zum Frieden auf die 12 Artikel der Bauernschaft in Schwaben
“It is better that the tyrants be a hundred times unjust to the people than that the people inflict one injustice on the tyrants. If there must be injustice it is to be preferred that we suffer from the authorities than that the magistrate suffer from the subjects.”
Ob Kriegsleute auch im seligen Stande sein konnen
“One ought not to resit outrage but rather suffer it; yet one should not approve of it….
“The princes of the world are gods, the common people are Satan, through whom God sometimes accomplishes what He would otherwise accomplish through Satan, namely rebellions, as punishment for wicked men.”
Von weltlicher Obeerkeit wie weit man ihr Gehorsam schuldig sei
“The donkey wants to be beaten and the mob wants to be ruled by force; God knew this well. This is the reason He gave the sword into the hands of the magistrate and not a foxtail.”
_________
500 years later Christians continue to debate whether the Luther approach or the Knox approach is more God honoring. For reasons already set out on Iron Ink I clearly think the early Luther was in error and Knox is right.
No Magistrate, no Husband, no Father, no Employer, no Minister, is owed unconditional obedience. Only God is owed unconditional obedience. Magistrates, as Covenant heads who viciously and continually violate the charters and covenant documents of a Nation, are no longer to be considered Magistrates, but instead are to be considered the Devil’s spawn and so are to be resisted when opportunity arises and the possibility of success is good.
It may be the case that we submit to wicked magistrates because the time is not right to resist because they have the biggest guns but strategically submitting is not the same thing as submitting because of the righteous claim of a magistrate.
The old Cameronian Covenanter motto holds true,
“Rebellion against Tyrants is Obedience to God.”
Does anybody except me see the irony in people calling me “Isis like” when I object to a sodomite marriage ruling that forces the sodomite definition of marriage upon the social order.
I object to their heavy handed Tyranny and I’m the one who is “like Isis.”
Theonomy has forever been accused of wanting to implement a top down law order. People have, over the years, been absolutely apoplectic that Theonomists wanted to be ruled by God’s law in the social order. Yet, having defamed, slandered, and libeled Theonomy for insisting that law is always religiously derived and in turn law always reflects the will of some God, god, or gods (thus always giving Theocracy) what we find happening now is that in a top down fashion the law of the sodomite god “Molech” is now being forced upon us. Many of the movement Libertarians are, in effect, telling us that we have no liberty to have marriage defined, for our social order, in a Christian fashion. Instead, marriage must have a forced Libertarian sodomite definition. Ironically enough many Libertarians are pleased that the State is forcing this on us. The best that the Libertarians can do is howl about how this wasn’t left up to the states to decide. As if states have some kind of inherent right to thumb their nose at God’s law.
You have to hand it to those of the Libertarian and Isis faiths. At least they each believe, unlike R2K and Baptist “Christians,” that the will of their respective gods should be honored in the public square.
Look, in the end law is always going to have a aspect of “top down” about it. We are now learning that you can have your top down law aspect from as from God’s law or your can have your top down aspect as from Molech, Talmud, or humanism.
The seventh gigantic error in Roosevelt’s statesmanship was the total economic sanctions on Japan one month later, at the end of July, 1941. The sanctions were war in every essence except shooting. Roosevelt had been warned time and again by his own officials that such provocation would sooner or later bring reprisals of war.
The eighth time statesmanship was wholly lost was Roosevelt’s contemptuous refusal of Prime Minister Konoye’s proposals for peace in the Pacific of September, 1941. The acceptance of these proposals was prayerfully urged by bot the American and British Ambassadors in Japan. The terms Konoye proposed would have accomplished every American purpose except possibly the return of Manchuria — and even this was thrown open to discussion. The cynic will recall that Roosevelt was willing to provoke a great war on his flank over this remote question and then gave Manchuria to Communist Russia.
The ninth time that Roosevelt became lost in international statesmanship was his destruction of the 1933 World Economic Conference. This conference was arranged by British Prime Minister MacDonald and myself to take place in January, 1933. Owing to the election of Mr. Roosevelt it was postponed until June. At that time the world was just beginning to recover from the world-wide depression but was engaged in bitter currency wars and multiplying trade barriers. The preliminary work had been done by experts. Roosevelt called ten Prime Ministers to Washington with whom he agreed to restore the gold standard in international transactions. Suddenly during the conference he repudiated (‘the bombshell’) these undertakings and the Conference cracked and died without accomplishment. His own Secretary of State Hull explicitly denounced this action as the roots of WW II.
Herbert Hoover
Freedom Betrayed — pg. 876, 878-879