McAtee Contra DeYoung On Christian Nationalism – I

“In my 2021 article, “What to Do With Christian Nationalism,” I argued that there were two problems with Christian Nationalism.

First, no one agrees on what Christian Nationalism is.”

Kevin De Young
Sex Questions For Christian Nationalists

This is a red herring. Consider that there is no consensus on what it means to be a “Christian.” Because there is no consensus on what Christian means does that mean that there is no such thing as Christianity?

Now, I agree that it would be helpful to have a stable definition of Christian Nationalism but anymore I would also agree it would be helpful to have a stable definition of Christianity. Hells bells … it would be helpful if could have a consensus on the question, “What is a woman.” For example, SCOTUS Justice Ketanji Jackson Brown during her nomination process could not give us an answer to the question; “What is a Woman?”

If people can’t agree on what a Woman is does that mean there’s no such thing as a woman?

De Young’s argument here amounts to; “Because so many people are wrong about what Christian Nationalism is, therefore nobody can be right about what Christian Nationalism is, therefore there is no such thing as Christian Nationalism.”

The Sword & Conversion … Long Live Charlamagne & Hernán Cortés

“We don’t want anybody to convert at the point of a spear or the edge of a sword.”

Doug Wilson
Interview w/ Chrissy Gordon

1.) It is not possible to convert anybody at the point of a spear or the edge of a sword.

2.) It is however possible to convert people to cultural Christianity at the point of a spear or the edge of a sword and has been done many times in history. Charlamagne, for example, converted the Saxons that way. Over the course of time subsequent to this forced conversion to cultural Christianity many Saxons were genuinely converted to a genuine Christian faith. This kind of “conversion” should be pursued in a setting where Christianity is being challenged by false gods in a cultural setting.

The Aztecs likewise were “converted” in this matter by Hernán Cortés. It would not have been a felicitous virtue to practice sensitivity to Aztec feelings to allow Aztec culture to continue. Forced conversion to an outward cultural expression of Christianity was a positive good and God was pleased with those types of conversions to cultural Christianity.

God would be pleased today if, for example, Abortionists, Sodomites and Trannies were forced to convert to a cultural Christianity that they hate. God would be please today if, for example, the producers of kiddie porn and those who sex traffic children and women were forced to convert to cultural Christianity even it that was done at the point of a spear or the edge of a sword. God was pleased when the Donatists were forced back into the church.

There is nothing ignoble or un-Christian in the least in this historical practice.

3.) God is pleased with ruling in the midst of His enemies. God is pleased when the wicked are forced to bow the knee. God is pleased when the wicked are forced, even as despising, to practice an outward form of righteousness that they do not agree with internally.

4.) We are at the point in the West where one religion or another is going to achieve final hegemony. Whichever religion which will win out will be a religion that eventually forces the other side to convert to their religion either at the point of the spear or the edge of the sword. So, the question is only whether or not we will be holding the spear and forcing the outward conversions to a admittedly cultural Christianity or whether we, as Christians, will on the wrong side of the spear and sword having to choose between our own outward conversion to a false religion or death. Christians will either use force or they will have force used against them.

There is nothing unrighteous in following the example of Charlemagne or Hernán Cortés or the little council in Geneva in their decision regarding Severtus for that matter.

Rev. Chris Gordon Advises Christians That The Public Square Does Not Belong To Christ

“Your premise here is that the public square is ours to take back. Prove that. I don’t see how the public square is ours to take back for our purposes in light of Belgic 13 (on God’s Providence).”

Rev. Chris Gordon
Interview w/ Wilson & Gordon
48:00f time stamp

1.) So Gordon’s premise here is that the public square belongs to another god and the people of another god and so God’s people shouldn’t be concerned since the public square does not belong to Christ?

2.) Gordon’s required proof is found in Psalm 2.

3.) Belgic 13 is on God’s providence and really has absolutely zero to do with whether we should or should not take back the public square. Whether or not Christians should or should not take the back the public square is answered by the fact that the public square is Christ’s public square.

4.) Keep in mind that Gordon’s counsel here is counsel of surrender to the false gods who will arrange the public square in their image if Christ is not publicly acknowledged once again as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Rev. Chris Gordon Mangles God’s Decree & Providence In Discussion With Wilson/Longshore

For God’s power and goodness are so great and beyond understanding that He ordains and executes His work in the most excellent and just manner, even when devils and wicked men act unjustly. For His power and goodness are so great and beyond understanding that He ordains and executes His work in the most excellent and just manner, even when devils and wicked men act unjustly. And as to His actions surpassing human understanding, we will not curiously inquire farther than our capacity allows us.

Belgic Confession of Faith
Article 13
The Providence of God

“You might say we are in this particular time of judgment. Certainly the spirit of anti-Christ has risen up…. but notice this it says that God’s power and goodness are so great and beyond understanding that He ordains and executes His work in the most excellent and just manner, even when devils and wicked men act unjustly. You might say that the time we are in has waxed this way. We are in this period of judgment. Certainly, the Spirit of Anti-Christ has risen up but notice this it says that;

“For His power and goodness are so great and beyond understanding that He ordains and executes His work in the most excellent and just manner, even when devils and wicked men act unjustly. And as to His actions surpassing human understanding, we will not curiously inquire farther than our capacity allows us.”

This whole effort of Christian Nationalism seems to say, ‘things aren’t going well for us. We have to do everything that we can to put the halts on the secular religionists. How are we not trying to pry into the just judgments of God and His providence and even His decrees to try and stop something that God has ordained and will use  Romans 8 for the good of those – His elect.'”

Rev. Chris Gordon
Interview w/ Doug Wilson & Jared Longshore
Time Stamp 44:15f

1.) This assumes that we aren’t supposed to do everything we can to put the halts on the secular religionists. How does Chrissy know that God’s providence and decree don’t include doing everything we can to put the halts on the secular religionists. What Gordon does here is he turns God’s providence and decree into a Greek kind of fate. That is not the definition of providence of God’s decree.

2.) How is Gordon himself here not trying to pry into God’s providence and even His decrees to not try and stop something that God has ordained and will use Romans 8 for the good of those – His elect, if stopped? Does Gordon know what God’s decrees are? Does Gordon know what God’s providence intends before it is complete?

3.) If God has ordained for X, Y, or Z to happen does Gordon suppose that it would be possible for us to stop or not stop what God has ordained? Gordon speaks like it might be possible for us to overturn and alter what God has ordained and intends to work in His providence.

4.) With this line of argumentation (so-called) Gordon seeks to crawl into God’s file cabinet and presumes to know what God has and has not decreed and from that inside knowledge of God’s mind is lecturing Wilson and Longshore on the evils of trying to do everything we can to put the halts on secular religionists. Is Gordon fighting against God’s design here?

Musings On Political Secularism

Political secularism, if by secularism one means that there is an absence of God(s) that is/are driving the actions of governmental business is an impossibility. No man or magistrate engages reality apart from a commitment to some God, gods, or god concept. Everything the political powers do is done with the tip of the cap (whether consciously or unconsciously) to some god(s) of some copybook heading.

Because this is so, the Biblical Christian advocates and champions the crown rights of King Jesus to rule explicitly over the political affairs of men. Of course, even if wicked magistrates are ruling, they are ruling by God’s divine decree but that fact doesn’t change the reality that wicked magistrates must be called on to rule according to the precepts of Jesus Christ found in His Word.

The doctrine of common grace, if it is held, does not change any of this. One can believe that in common grace God can do relative good through wicked magistrates and still believe that wicked magistrates are required to Kiss the Son lest God be angry and the wicked magistrate perishes in the way.

Secularism, as it is currently embraced, which is a form of pluralism, which in turn is an expression of polytheism, is not a political arrangement that any Biblical Christian can be comfortable with without being disobedient to the crown rights of King Jesus.

There is an implication here that people are not going to like. If we, as Christians are not to embrace secularism as what pleases the God of the Bible then we are not allowed to vote for candidates who will continue the secular arrangement wherein God is not pleased. We can hardly, consistently, oppose secularism and keep pulling levers for people who will continue on with secularism.