I teach at a Christian school, and I have contact with others at both Christian and public schools. When parents ask me, “What do you recommend — public, private, or homeschool?”, I respond, “It depends on the kid.”

I am sincerely sorry that you give such bad counsel. May I advise you in the future to say …. “Why, naturally you should be homeschooling your children.” What a wonderful opportunity you will have to really keep your Baptismal vows when your children were baptized.”

Bret, let’s grant everything that you’ve been saying about the public schools.

If everything I’ve said about government schools is granted, no argument remains.

For the sake of argument, we can accept the metaphor that public schools are temples of humanism with festivals and priests.

Ok, that means those who advocate children attending government schools have accepted the idea that God desired the children of Israel to send their children to the schools of Canaan. It means that they accept the idea that God approves of the children Israel taking classes in Canaan on “The social theory behind sacrificing children to Molech,” and “How luck guided Israel to this land,” and “Economics that don’t take account of God.” Among other classes.

Does it follow that attending a public school *is*, by definition, participating in humanistic religion?

Yes. Schools teach what to think. Scripture teaches as a man thinketh in his heart so he is. Sending children to a school that teaches humanistic religion produces humanistic children. Now, surely we all agree that God is gracious and that God can providentially pluck children from such saturation but we should not put the Lord thy God to the test.

To borrow from 1 Cor, are the children in public schools drinking the cups of idols, OR, are they eating the meat sacrificed to idols? The former, as you recall, is incompatible with being a Christian. The latter is permissible as long as the conscience is undefiled.

Interesting framing of the issue Jeff. I would instead say that putting the covenant seed in government school is to cause a little one to stumble. Now, again, I want to make it clear that I fully recognize that not all covenant children who attend government schools end up apostate just as all children who are aborted don’t end up being born dead.

I would argue that the latter is a more apt analogy. Teachers in public schools may advocate humanistic ideas, but that doesn’t require students to accept them.

Sure, you can soak a million rags in oil 40 hours a week for 13 years and it is possible that some of those rags won’t become oily rags.

It’s entirely possible for a well-trained child pick up skills like mathematics and writing from entirely secular teachers — to “plunder the Egyptians” — and engage in the spiritual battle in the situation he finds himself.

And it is possible that a children’s crusade to the Middle East would result in a few children actually attacking the citadel of Islam.

Still, I quite agree, that in what are styled the “hard sciences” a student could learn in government schools. Of course this does not take into consideration the destructive peer dynamics that occur in government schools. Considerations quite apart from the humanism in the classrooms.

I think you recognize this fact, Bret, which is why you allow for “adults” ages 18-22 to attend secular colleges, despite the fact that the atmosphere on college campuses is far more perniciously anti-Christian than in public secondary schools. In your view, an 18-year-old can attend a college without participating in its worship.

No, Jeff, this is a mis-characterization of what I said.

First, there is no such thing as secular.

Second, I do not accept the premise that Colleges are any more humanistic then secondary schools.

Third, I made it clear that the reason I find it acceptable for a 18 – 22 year old to attend college is that I believe by that age they should be trained to be a burr in the saddle of humanistic college professors. They may be in the temple of Molech, but while there they are giving Molech an enema.

Well, if an 18-year-old can do that, what about a 16-year-old? Or 14-year-old? *It depends on the kid.*

See first response to Darryl today. I already answered that.

In other words, what we’re talking about here is matter of wisdom rather than an iron-clad rule, “Thou shalt not participate in public secondary education.”

I think it is, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

That’s one of the ironclad ones isn’t it?

Yes, secular schools are intent on inculcating their value system. We would be fools not to recognize this. For many, the better part of wisdom might be to stay away.

Well, I suppose if your children are child savants and are courageous as lions and are not intimidated by adult blowhards foisting humanism, that in such a case we certainly might have an exception. Do you know any children like that?

But many may not be able to. You spoke earlier of those who drive $20k cars, but there are millions of Christians in America who can’t afford those kinds of cars to begin with.

Must have me mixed up w/ someone else. I never said that.

And still others may have students who are spiritually trained and able to be in the school without being of the school.

Just as there may be children who could join the Marines and make the cut.

We need wisdom to determine which ideas from secular education are truly compatible “all the way down” with Biblical theology, and the wisdom to know whether our children are vulnerable to being corrupted by the false ideas. We can’t just throw down a blanket rule, any more than we can create a blanket rule like “Thou shalt not watch R-rated movies.”

You watch R rated movies?

Just kidding.

Look, Jeff, children are children. They are to be protected. I fully grant that rare exceptions might occur. But the idea that we can make policy on those rare exceptions is unwise.

The same wisdom is likewise needed to determine whether a given *Christian* school is a good fit for our children. Christian schools aren’t given a magic talisman that keeps them from error. On the contrary, Christian schools are often the promoters of errors at least as pernicious as those in public schools — legalism being the most common.

I quite agree and would say that potential dangers exist for homeschooling. Still, a child would be better off growing up without education at all then to attend government schools.

In fact, I often steer students *away* from Christian colleges with Bible departments that are known to have a low view of Scripture. For many Christian young adults, it’s better to attend a secular university where the enemy is obvious, than to attend a “Christian” university where the enemy is trusted because of his Christian label.

I agree again.

The same wisdom is required of parents who wish to home-school. In some cases, the kid needs to be home. But in some cases, being at home with mom and dad will simply exacerbate sin tendencies already present in the family.

Well, in an ideal world, the Church would involve itself with those familial sin tendencies.

Or perhaps Mom and Dad weren’t the sharpest students in the class; is it loving to the child for them to pass on their substandard knowledge to their children when better teachers are available?

Teachers that are humanistic in their worldview are by definition not better teachers.

Training? Yeah, absolutely. All parents need to be training their children on a regular basis. Mandated private- or home-schooling? That’s turning what may be wise for some (or even many) into a rule for all. I don’t think that works.

Well, Jeff, you’re entitled to be wrong.

I suspect, Bret, that you might agree with me. After all, if you really believed that sending kids to public schools was idolatry, wouldn’t you be pressing charges against those parents, just as if they had taken them to a Buddhist temple for services?

Not having any parents whose children attend government schools I couldn’t speak to that.

Second, even if I did, I’m wise enough to know that some things need to be done incrementally, even if that means that some covenant children will suffer as a result.