Gordon Interview Of Wolfe – VII

“The whole paradigm of the new covenant seems put us in that Babylonic exile state until we reach the new heavens and the new earth.”

Rev. Chris Gordon
Interview w/ Dr. Wolfe
Time Stamp 34:45f

Yeah… I think this is horrid theology. This theology has lost the capacity to realize that with the advent of Christ the age to come has arrived and as such the Christian life is not described as one of being constantly in Babylonic exile though there are times when the exile motif is indeed experienced more acutely than other times.

The Scripture teaches that

3All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. 4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses.

“The Scripture teaches that we have been translated from the Kingdom of Darkness to the Kingdom of God’s dear Son whom He loves.”

For Gordon and the R2K ilk their eschatology is all “not yet.” They have zero capacity to think of the nowness of the Kingdom. For Gordon and R2K the Christian life is all one of Babylonian exile. There is no sense that because of the redemption granted in Christ Christians can bring redemption to every area of life and so find God’s will done on earth as it is in heaven.

Gordon Interview of Wolfe – VI

Gordon uses God’s call of Abram to leave Ur of the Chaldees to go to a different land as proof that Christians are not supposed to be attached to place or people. Gordon insists that the land of Christians is the heavenly land and, by implication, that our people are not our own kith and kin but are instead fellow Christians. Gordon says “the whole paradigm of Scripture is moving us away from these earthly loyalties to heavenly loyalties.”

Doubtless this is why God said, “Honor thy Father and Mother.” Doubtless this is why God said “If a man does not provide for his own household he is worse than an infidel.” Doubtless this reasoning accounts for Paul’s throated expression of love for his earthly people in Romans 9:3.

It is these kind of statements of the R2K fanboys like Rev. Chris Gordon that finds me screaming, “GNOSTIC.” The Christian faith does not separate or divorce the heavenly from the earthly but finds the heavenly in the earthly. That which is earthly in the negative sense is earthly because it has been divorced from the meaning it has when it is injected with the heavenly. It is earthly because it is fallen and yet to be restored by grace. If grace restores nature then nature becomes what it was always intended to be, and that is due to grace.

As a Christian I don’t have to be all dualistic separating heaven from earth as if there is no relation between the two. As a Christian I know and live in terms of the reality that Christ has redeemed and so is redeeming all of nature and as such the dichotomy between heaven and earth is no longer a dichotomy.

Gordon Interview of Wolfe – V

“I just had a pickup. When my Dad died he handed me the title and gave me the truck. I sold it this week (hearty laughter by Gordon). It’s not my Dad, you know. I really didn’t feel any emotional tie to that. Maybe I’m just not a sentimentalist. That could be the issue.”
Rev. Chris Gordon
Interview w/ Dr. Wolfe

If Gordon’s Dad had bought the truck after Chris had left the home so that Chris had no kind of memories attached to that truck and his Father I could begin to understand this. However, if this truck of Gordon’s Father was a truck that Chris with his father went fishing or hunting or mudding or camping together then I would find this attitude on the edge of being “not right in the head.”

The truck abstracted from memories of his father would be comparatively easy to sell but the truck as filled with memories of activities together as Father and Son would find most normal people heart sick at having to sell the truck. Sentimentalism has nothing to do with it since the degree of sentimentalism rises and falls with what a person believes. A Gnostic, because of their Gnosticism would not blink over selling a memory filled pick up truck of one’s Father because of what they believe concerning the material realm being evil. A non-Gnostic might have troubles indeed.

Gordon Interview w/ Wolfe IV

I.) “I know you don’t identify yourself as a Kinist right?

Rev. Chris Gordon
To Dr. Wolfe

1.) Nobody defines what a kinist is. If you’re ever in a conversation and somebody asks you; “are you a Kinist?” your response needs to immediately be … “Well, you tell me what you mean by the word “Kinist.”

2.) Both Gordon and Wolfe are scared to death of the Ordo Amoris which is all that Kinism is.

3.) Nobody in America in 1965 would have blinked at being called a Kinist. That’s because 88.6% of the US population was white.

4.) The only reason Kinism is abominated is because of the full throated embrace of multiculturalism as combined with the hatred of being white.

On the widespread hatred of white folks see…

II.) “When we start dismissing the concept of blood and soil because we habitually want to go straight to Nazi’s killing Jews we;re losing a basic human truth that is actually good for us.”

Dr. Stephen Wolfe
Interview w/ Rev. Gordon
Time Stamp 21:06

Gordon Interview w/ Wolfe III

Rev. Chris Gordon reasons that since a nation as a nation can’t be connected in membership to a visible church therefore it is wrong to use the language of Christian nation. Gordon also desires to make the definition of a Christian Nation as something that is uniquely applied to the State. Gordon confuses the nation with the State. It is possible, after all, for a Christian nation to be led by non-Christian magistrates. Such a situation would not last long, I suspect, but it is possible much in the way when a Protestant people would be ruled by a Roman Catholic Monarch.

Gordon’s problem here is that he will not concede that if a nation operates on the basis of Christian law and custom it can therefore legitimately be considered Christian in the sense that it is governed in a way consistent with God’s revelation and mores. Gordon is insisting that since a nation can’t be baptized and become a member of a particular church therefore a nation can’t be Christian. However, on this basis nothing can be Christian except for the individual. Education can’t be considered Christian since Education can’t be be baptized and become a member of a particular visible church. Law or Jurisprudence can’t be considered Christian since Law/Jurisprudence can’t be baptized and required to take membership vows.

Gordon’s problem here is his constrained definition of the word “Christian.” Gordon can’t seem to conceptualize that when individual Christians bring their distinctly Christian convictions with them in their various callings, those callings are injected with a Christian gravitas that was not previously present in those convictions.

Gordon seems not to realize the distinction between “structure,” and “direction.” It is true that we have these various “structures” as part of our society/culture (family, education, arts, law, politics, church, etc.) but the structures themselves always are going to be arcing in a particular religious direction. That religious direction could be Mooselimb, Bagel, Christian, Humanist, Marxist, etc. When the direction of a societies/cultures is consistent with God’s special revelation it is arcing in a particularly Christian direction and given that direction it can and should be called “Christian.” If the direction of the societal/cultural structures are arcing towards a “Mooselimb” or “Talmudists,” or “Humanist,” or “Marxist,” etc. direction they should be labeled accordingly.

Gordon’s failure to see the above results in his creating, at the very least in a defacto sense, a neutral common realm where no religious appellation can be fixed upon the peoples inhabiting and creating that culture. For Gordon, and all R2K, society/culture is by definition irreligious, non-religious, or a-religious.

Gordon Interview W/ Wolfe
Start appx. 17:30