Bret,
Ah, a Calvinist. Well, that explains the hostility towards anything a Unitarian Universalist minister might have to say. Unlike you Bret, I respect the rights of others to follow the religious path of their choice. I also believe that humans have the capacity for reason and can determine for themselves what is true and right in life.
I will leave it to readers to look up your beliefs. Since John Calvin burned Michael Servetus at the stake for the heresy of freethought, our faith traditions have had little in common. Therefore, I am not surprised at your tone or your presumption to know what is in my heart.
Given our widely varying beliefs, I doubt that there is anything I could say that would be useful in any type of dialogue with you. People must be open to revelation from human experience, love, and goodness to move away from concepts such as inherent depravity, and I suspect that you are not at that point. When and if you do reach such a time, get in touch and I would be happy to talk.
Jeff Liebmann
Ordained Minister at Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Midland
Response,
Jeff Liebmann
My hostility, as you call it, has nothing to do with your UU status. My hostility is against your belief system that is destroying Biblical Christianity and so the West in the name of Christianity.
You respect the rights of others to follow the religous path of their choice? Really? Do you respect that Hindu family who insists that a young widowed wife immolate herself on her husbands funeral pyre because of their religious path called Suttee? Do you respect the religious path of those who would sacrafice their children in the fires of Molech? Do you even respect my religious path of pointing out how irrational your religious path is?
You try to posit yourself as the reasonable one in the conversation and myself as the extremist but in point of fact you are the one who has consistently revealed yourself to be the extremist. If humans, as you say, can determine for themselves what is true and right in life then how can there be any objection from you if, like the Marquis deSade, humans determine to go all sadistic on those who are weaker then them? How can you object if, like Friedrich Nietzshe, humans determine it is criminal for the stronger to esteem and protect the weaker in society? How can you object if, like Joe Stalin, humans determine that 30 million lifes spent is a reasonable price for political reorganziation?
You deny inherent depravity. Have you studied the 20th century at all? If 20th century empirical history proves anything it proves that man is inherently depraved.
No, the fact of the matter UUJ is that you are a non sensible person who has staked out positions that have no cohesion or coherency — and you have done so in the name of a Christianity that is vile and foul beyond reckoning. You may be full of good intentions. I don’t know. But regardless of your possible good intentions your belief system, when examined, is destructive and inhibitive of human flourshing.
Next you complain about my presumption. I don’t have to presume to “know what’s in your heart.” You tell me and the readership all the time. There is no presumption here. There is just taking your words seriously.
Finally, you insist that people must be “open to revelation from human experience, love, and goodness.” This statement leaves me incredulous. I contend that if man wants to live the good life we must come under God’s revelation of Scripture. You contend that if man wants to live the good life man must be open to the revelation from human experience, love, and goodness. Where as your revelation led us? Well, just most recently we see,
1.) Aborting babies and selling their body parts
2.) Sadism and Masochism on a wide scale (“50 Shades of Gray” anyone?)
You are correct though when you imply how little commonality we have. The difference between us is the difference between the Serpent who said, “Hath God really said,” and the Scriptural Prophet who has always said, “Thus saith the Lord.”
And yet, the Lord Christ died for sins such as yours and still commands all men everywhere to repent. Will you not repent Jeff?
When the love of man replaces the love of God to this extent, the degree of irrationality, pride, and self deception is a wonder to behold. No doubt all our hearts are wicked beyond measure without our Lord. I find your responses courageous, full of truth and inspirationally passionate. Chilling statements made by this minister indeed. Purely ironic how a passionate response with the Spirit of Truth is now so boldly and disingenuously dismissed by those from other altars while masquerading as tolerance.
I suggest the following as an alternative title for this post:
Super Universalistic Mono-pologetics