James White on Twitter;
There is absolutely, positively NO PLACE in Christ’s Church for “white,” or “Asian” or “Black” or “Latino” or anything else *used as a divisive label.* The unity of the body is in the singular, undivided, indispensable righteousness of Christ, NOT in skin color, kin, tribe or nation.
Bret responds,
1.) What counts as a divisive label? When Stephen Wolfe speaks something that is objectively and indisputably true on a Twitter thread that;
“White evangelicals (as a group) are the lone bulwark against moral insanity in America…. It is simply true that white evangelicals, as a group, have been essential to the success of the GOP and conservative causes, and they remain the most reliable voters for those opposing woke and trangenderism…. “Lone bulwark” means that the absence of the white evangelical bloc would torpedo us into moral insanity. There is no other group (that I’m aware of) whose absence would cause this.”
Is that being “divisive” per James White? I think it must mean that in White’s World because he posted these comments in response to Wolfe’s observation.
So, I wonder if Rev. Dr. White might explain just exactly how such an observation is creating divisiveness in Christ’s church?
The inspired St. Paul could say that “All Cretans are liars.” Per Rev. Dr. White should St. Paul be sanctioned for that allegedly divisive comment? What about when Jesus called the Samaritan woman a “dog.” Should Jesus be sanctioned for that allegedly divisive comment?
2.) The Rev. Dr. White has a false dichotomy above. It is true that the unity of the body is found in the righteousness of Jesus Christ but that does not in turn mean that Christian people can’t also find a unity in “skin color, kin, tribe or nation.” Listen to Dr. John Frame on the matter;
“Scripture, as I read it, does not require societies, or even churches, to be integrated racially. Jews and Gentiles were brought together by God’s grace into one body. They were expected to love one another and to accept one another as brothers inthe faith. But the Jewish Christians continued to maintain a distinct culture, and house churches were not required to include members of both groups.”
John Frame,
“Racism, Sexism, Marxism”
White makes the popular mistake in that opening comment of thinking that somehow grace destroys nature. A Yellow man becomes a Christian and suddenly his Yellowness disappears, with all the implied cultural and racial heritage, into the Christian regenerating ether. Why can’t these people like the Rev. Dr. White realize that we can have both a unity with our Christian Kin that is unique but doesn’t violate a confederated unity with our fellow Christians who are not of our people and place?
Again, keep in mind, that the church has only begun to think this way with the rise of the Civil rights movement. Never, in the Church’s history has anyone ever thought like James White and his ideological clan on this subject except perhaps the Anabaptist levelers.
Rev. Dr. James White going all declarative writes;
“I will NOT stand with anyone who seeks to undermine that unity with the use of such labels. I stood up in 2018 after MLK 50 and said the EXACT same thing. One man called for an “ecumenical council” to condemn me as a heretic for daring to say the Lord’s Table is a place not for ethnicities or labels but solely as a place for focus upon Christ.”
Bret responds,
1.) Really, very few care who James White will or will not stand with. I think they call this “attention seeking behavior.”
2.) White is not angling for unity here. White is thumping for uniformity. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
3.) I’m not going to comment on the last sentence above because I suspect I need more context to know what really went on there. Still, if the Lord’s Table is not a place for labels, I think that means the Rev. Dr. James White is all good with paedo-communion since the work of disallowing toddlers to the table requires the work of “labeling” them.
Rev. Dr. White writes;
The only bulwark against the moral insanity of the West is found in *fidelity to Scripture as the revelation of God and its proclamation of Christ as Lord of the nations, the sole and only way of peace with God, and hence the only way of peace amongst men.* That message is not white, black, green or blue. I have far, far, FAR more in common with a Chinese pastor standing firm in the face of CCP torture than I do a white evangelical whose commitment to Scripture is weaker than his commitment to a political party or cause.
Bret responds,
1.) Here White snipes at Stephen Wolfe’s comment above. I don’t want to put words in Wolfe’s mouth but I suspect that Wolfe would say (and I know I would say) that the reason that “White evangelicals (as a group) are the lone bulwark against moral insanity in America” is precisely because of their, in White’s words, “fidelity to Scripture as the revelation of God and its proclamation of Christ as Lord of the nations, the sole and only way of peace with God, and hence the only way of peace amongst men.*”
As such the Rev. Dr. White has given us the fallacy of a false dichotomy. False dichotomies are all the rage these days among those reputed to be pillars in the Church today.
2.) Of course that message is “not white, black, green or blue.” However, that is not the question at hand, though we are certainly thankful that the Rev. Dr. White has cleared that up for everyone. The question at hand is, “which kin group, as completely in God’s providence and grace, quite apart from any idea that they are made of anything but dirt, has been that kin group who are serving as the bulwark against moral insanity in America?” And whether Dr. White wants to admit it or not, the answer to that is the White Anglo Saxon Christian people.
Please forgive me Rev. Dr. White for committing the sin of noticing.
3.) But the question is does White have more in common with a WASP pastor who is his cousin standing firm in the face of the American Unipolar Party than he has in common with a Chinese pastor standing firm in the face of the CCP? I doubt if the Rev. Dr. White would get anywhere near to answering that question.
The Rev. Dr. White writes,
It is time we all took a deep, deep breath, backed up about a year or so, and said, “Let’s try this again, slowly, carefully, without the influence of undo emotion, and let us in grace and love toward fellow believers think this through.” As soon as it comes to our using ethnic groups as meaningful cohorts rather than the unity of the body in the gospel, we will know we have lost our way!
Bret responds,
It is time that those reputed to be pillars in the Church took a deep, deep breath, backed up about a year or so, and said, “Let’s try this again once we read Dow and Achord’s book, ‘Who is My Neighbor.’ Let’s read it slowly, carefully, without the influence of the emotions of Cultural Marxism coursing through our veins. As soon as it comes to the inability to admit creational categories exist within the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ we will know we have lost our way and instead are following the way of old Slewfoot who has convinced us that Bono was inspired when he wrote;
I believe in the Kingdom Come
Then all the colours will bleed into one
Bleed into one
But yes, I’m still running
Are you having a convo on here with James White from alpha and omega, the apologist? Interesting lines of argumentation. I think that our/your position on these issues is about as in line as they should be regarding the threats that we’re facing, macro/micro, etc, you name it…
James White responded to something that Stephen Wolfe wrote. I quote what Wolfe said in the piece. It is that to which James White is responding to and it is White’s response to Wolfe to which I am responding to. White says he’s an apologist, but on the whole I consider him a doofus.
And of course I agree with you Joshua that my positions are
1.) Correct
2.) The positions that the Church has taken through the centuries
3.) Most Importantly … my/our position is the Biblical position
“White is not angling for unity here. White is thumping for uniformity. There is a HUGE difference between the two.”
On that salient point we completely agree!
Borrowing a line from Bob Dylan which (with a minor alteration) is suitable to nit wits like little Jimmy White.
Hear the one with his Bible say, “Jeez, I can’t find my knees”
The problem is that none of these clowns can find their knees on this subject.
Perhaps if they turned on the light they’d find their knees and discover their new coat is the same one the emperor was wearing. They might at least stay inside and not call attention to their nakedness. Or go to the gym. Even THAT would be an improvement.
Jetbrane: I don’t understand how and why you get so hot and bothered about some of the issues concerning which you seem to get hot and bothered.
Here you say (correctly, I think), that “Of course that message is ‘not white, black, green or blue.'” On the other hand, you then go on to say, “The question at hand is, ‘which kin group . . . has been . . . serving as the bulwark against moral insanity in America?'” And, for some reason, you seem intent on defining the “kin” in racial/racist terms: “[W]hether Dr. White wants to admit it or not, the answer to that is the White Anglo Saxon Christian people.” Really? “‘[T]he‘ White Anglo Saxon Christian people”? This “people”?
No non-White Anglo Saxon Christians (in other words, only White Anglo Saxons) have been opposing moral insanity in America? And, somehow, it is the White Anglo Saxons’ “peoplehood”–you know, their being White and Anglo Saxon–that fitted and enabled them, somehow, uniquely, to stand up for their high standards? It is their kinship in racial and ethnic identity that leads to such moral righteousness? And we ought to recognize this kinship–and make sure to exclude righteous brothers and sisters in Christ–brothers and sisters of other racial or ethnic backgrounds–from honor for their courageous stands?
I am concerned that you are confusing certain realities to the detriment both of the morally confused White Anglo Saxons who may claim to know the Saviro but really don’t . . . as well as to the detriment of our Christian brothers and sisters of other racial and ethnic heritages who find your (seriously confused) declarations deeply offensive.
John… give this a read. It might help
http://www.thedailygenevan.com/blog/2022/11/17/naturalvsnonnatural
And view this to see the danger WASCs are in
https://odysee.com/@Counterpoints:5/the-truth-about-the-great-replacement:d1
John,
I don’t know how you or any Biblical Christian can not get hot and bothered by the things I get hot and bothered about. So, I guess we are even on that score.
I don’t define it in solely racial terms because I clearly offer that it is White Anglo Saxon CHRISTIANS. White non Christians (normies) are clearly contributing to the moral insanity.
I don’t define it in solely racial terms because I’m not “defining” anything. I am merely noticing the facts. And to find those facts all one has to do is look at the minority groups, group by group, to see who the percentages by which they vote for the party of moral insanity (DEMS). (Though just to be fair, I thoroughly despise Republicans as well, but at least they work at fooling the White Anglo Saxon Christian.)
I am defining it primarily in racial-theological terms because that is the indisputable reality. Now, when something is defined primarily or generally it doesn’t mean “universally.” I never said that there weren’t minority people who weren’t in the fight with the White Anglo Saxon Christian (WASC), I merely agreed with Stephen Wolfe that WASCs are the serving as a defense or safeguard (bulwark) against moral insanity.
Here is Wolfe’s statement again in case you missed it.
“White evangelicals (as a group) are the lone bulwark against moral insanity in America…. It is simply true that white evangelicals, as a group, have been essential to the success of the GOP and conservative causes, and they remain the most reliable voters for those opposing woke and trangenderism…. “Lone bulwark” means that the absence of the white evangelical bloc would torpedo us into moral insanity. There is no other group (that I’m aware of) whose absence would cause this.”
The point here John is that were one to take WASC’s out of our societal mix the culture would to belly up. This is indisputably true and it no insult to Christian who are not white unless one is dallying with being WOKE. Are you dallying with being WOKE John?
And I clearly said in my piece that WASCs were not made of better dirt. Did you skim the piece or read it John? I wrote in the piece:
The question at hand is, “which kin group, as completely in God’s providence and grace, quite apart from any idea that they are made of anything but dirt, has been that kin group who are serving as the bulwark against moral insanity in America?” And whether Dr. White wants to admit it or not, the answer to that is the White Anglo Saxon Christian people.
Please forgive me Rev. Dr. White (and now John) for committing the sin of noticing.
Nobody is excluding anybody here. Why some of my best friends are minority Christians. (That’s a throwback to the 60s joke though I’ll doubt you will get it).
You have completely misread my piece John and it has been my long experience that people who do that still are infected with cultural Marxist categories. I have said nothing (nor has Wolfe) that is pejorative to minority Christians. One can only come to that errant conclusion if one is reading what I am saying with colored glasses on.
Wolfe’s OP and my agreement has not only been demonstrated statistically but also taken for granted by people who hate white evangelicals. It’s even in the front page of books their books!
See Kristen Kobes DuMez’s book, “Jesus & John Wayne.”
So, in the end I am confusing nothing John. If anybody finds anything I write offensive on this post than more often than not it is because they are taking offense, and not because I am giving offense.
Just ask my minority friends who share a Christian worldview.
John… give this a read. It might help
http://www.thedailygenevan.com/blog/2022/11/17/naturalvsnonnatural
And view this to see the danger WASCs are in
https://odysee.com/@Counterpoints:5/the-truth-about-the-great-replacement:d1
Well said here; I didn’t expect this nonsense from White, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at this point. He just put a Dividing Line episode out today where he’s hotter than a blue blaze mad at Wolfe, and everyone else that ‘came out of the wood-work to support White supremacy’…I can’t believe that someone like him, even though he’s a Baptist, isn’t sharp enough to understand this issue in a logical fashion…he better though, sooner rather than later…
I understand America is very German according to self-reporting.
Care to mention, how German vs WASP Evangelicals are?
Or do you mean WASP to mean what Benjamin Franklin meant by white in his White/Swarthy/Twany ethnic classification of Europeans.
I do know that no one enlists in the Army but WASP Christians. Germans never fight despite WWII (((propaganda))) to the contrary. I also know the WASPs are more religious than Germans.