1.) For those not in the know, recently there was a rather successful conference held by the Ogden, Utah chaps. However, since this rather successful conference was not sanctioned by the Reformed powers that be the Reformed powers that be hit the overdrive button to find fault and “boy howdy” did they ever uncover a fault in the conference. It seems that there was a book vendor at the conference that was selling books not approved of by the powers that be. They were selling books that had the speech of Adolf Hitler in them and books that were trying to cast National Socialism in a positive light. That was bad enough for the Reformed cognoscenti but the coup-de-grace was when this same publishing house passed out, with every purchase, a little flyer that listed other businesses that this publishing house supported.
First, as to the books being sold, it is not being more than suggested that this vendor proves that there are Nazis in the Christian Nationalism movement and, worse yet, those Nazis are coming into the Reformed church. It’s the whole guilt by association thing. The Ogden lads have admitted their mistake of not looking more closely at the vendors they were hosting. Suave and Conn both said that their desire was to only have vendors who were explicitly Christian. The book vendor in question admits they are not explicitly Christian but rather are pro-white. Personally, I’m not a big censorship kind of guy. I don’t have a problem with a book vendor selling books that put forth ideas I don’t agree with. Second, these kind of Christian conferences happen all the time and there are books being sold that are far worse than anything being sold by Antelope Hill. I’ve been to several Christian conferences selling books by chaps promoting R2K ideas and I am here to tell you that the heresy that is R2K is right now far more dangerous to the church than Nazism is and yet nobody (except me) is screaming about how R2K heresy is being pushed at Christian conferences. So, as for me and my house, we see this aspect as a tempest in a teapot. I don’t agree with the philosophy of some of the books they were selling and with other of the books they were selling I do agree with. I highly recommend their “The Sword of Christ,” by Giles Corey. Tell you what. I’ll propose a deal. If all Christian conferences will get rid of all R2K literature at their conferences then I will support all Christian conferences getting rid of any material that seeks to allow National Socialism to explain itself in a different light than the post-war consensus narrative has anchored it in.
Now the second leg of this matter is another thing. The flyer being handed out by Antelope Hill should not have been handed out. As reported by the Ogden chaps, that flyer had some rank pagan businesses on it as well as a rather risque men’s magazine. One doesn’t expect that one is going to find at a Christian conference a vendor handing out a flyer that lists businesses that are explicitly anti-Christ. As Christians we have to be aware that the pro-white community has a good deal of Odinism and other non-Christian pagan ideas that is actually oppositional to Christian Nationalism.
2.) Having said all that, we must realize that the attempt by many who are raging at the Ogden chaps is just at attempt to control what can and cannot be said in the Reformed world. The Ogden blokes do not have the Reformed Institutional Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval and so they must be destroyed no matter what. Not only do the Ogden chaps have to deal with the “official Reformed world” nipping at their heels they also have to deal with the unofficial and barely Reformed world of Doug Wilson and the CREC nipping at their heels. Ogden seems to be carving out a place for themselves and those who are currently the “King of the Hill” don’t want any unapproved competition.
3.) Back to Hitler
In this context the whole “Hitler was a Christian Prince,” and “What we need is a Protestant Hitler” as uttered by good Christian me has arisen again. In my estimation the whole purpose of such statements is to be an Edgelord while attempting to move the Overton Window increasingly to the right. I get it that these statements make all just the right people go crazy. I admit I love seeing the angst in those who froth at the mouth at such statements. I also understand that such statements are intended to force people to once again question the post-war consensus and to quit forcing history into simple equations like, “Hitler = evil,” and “Allies = good.”
Full disclosure here …. my conclusions on this matter are Stalin was the worst of all, followed by Churchill and FDR. Hitler, while being no Christian Prince was probably no more or less evil than Churchill and FDR. Any deep dive into the various sources (both revisionist and court historians) reveal this to be true. Also here it should be said that I don’t believe the six million number, though I don’t pretend to know what the actual number was. I fully understand why the Germans elected Hitler. I think Hitler and his actions were the inevitable outcome of the Versaille treaty. I think the “knife in the back” theory surrounding WWI has legs. I think that one can only understand the Germans and Hitler in light of the disaster that was the Weimar Republic and Magnus Hirschfeld with his Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, not to mention the growing Communist menace in Germany during the same time. If Christians today had been living in that Germany they may likely have found themselves concluding that a vote for Hitler was the way out.
However, having said all that, I don’t believe that it is wise or prudent to be going around saying that “Hitler was a Christian Prince,” or that “What we need is a Protestant Hitler.” First, that Hitler was most certainly not a Christian Prince is seen, if in nothing else, his embrace of the Aktion-T4 program. This program was state sponsored euthanasia of those deemed so crippled or broken that they were not worthy of life. Estimates suggest that between 100K and 250K blond aired, blue eyed Germans were murdered by the State. Now, like all else in the reporting of the Nazi actions there are exaggerations about this program but despite the exaggerations of the Commies pursued to pile guilt on the West, the program really existed and Hitler knew about this. There is no ability hear, as there is with the so called “final solution” to say “Hitler never knew.” He knew and approved and finally called the program off in 1941 when being met with resistance by the German people. Look, if we are going to be honest about all of this history and finally give up on the Communist inspired “history” that we call the “post-war consensus” then we need to admit ourselves where the problems were. The Aktion T-4 program was a problem. A problem that is once again being embraced right now in the West with the MAiDs program in Canada and the embarrassing euthanasia laws in the Netherlands. All this to say that like FDR, and Churchill, Hitler was no Christian Prince. (Stalin did go to Seminary though for awhile so maybe he is the Christian Prince we need?)
Next the phrase, “We need a Protestant Hitler.” Well, if Hitler was Protestant he wouldn’t be Hitler and a Protestant would never be Hitler. So, that’s kind of a silly statement.
However, by biggest problem with these slogans is not that it makes the Libtards go ape crazy. I love that. My problem is not the idea contained in the phrases is that we need to get rid of the liberal post war consensus that is driving us into the New World Order that intends to eliminate all nations, ethnicities and races. My problem is not that I disagree on the overall agenda of the people using the phrase. My problem here with these phrases, beyond what I’ve already limned out is that they are counterproductive to the number ONE goal of rescuing our people. Our goal here isn’t to rehabilitate Hitler. A non-Jewish interpretation of the 20th century may well come but for now our number one goal is delivering the Christian White man from being replaced and/or genocided. Most of our people have been propagandized for four generations now into the Jewish myth that is the post-war/civil rights historical myth. Because that is so, I ask how wise is it to throw these people into the deep end of the pool by invoking Hitler? The knee-jerk reaction, because of generations of Jewish media propaganda, is for our people to recoil from such statements. I am contending that it is better to demonstrate how it is that White Christians are being incrementally eliminated across the globe so as to rally them around a pro White and Christian message. It is better to demonstrate that the purpose of migration movements in the last 40 years are so is to the end of canceling white people than it is to rehabilitate Hitler. It is better to demonstrate that Critical Race theory and WOKEis and Cultural Marxism, political correctness, and diversity, inclusion and equity, are all about snuffing out the Christian white man over against rehabilitating Hitler. It is better to talk about books like “White Girl Bleed A Lot” and “Don’t Make the Black Kids Angry,” than it is to try and rehabilitate Hitler if we want to rescue the Christian White man from genocide. It is better to point out the decline of the total percentage of white people in the world today compared to 50 years ago than it is to rehabilitate Hitler if we believe that there is an agenda to snuff out the Christian White man. It is better to point out how these united States have dropped from 88% white Christian to 63% white since the Hart Cellar act than it is to rehabilitate Hitler if we are burdened for our White brothers and sisters in Christ. It is better to point out how it is the case that according to United Nations definitions the white man is being genocided than it is to rehabilitate Hitler if we want to save kith and kin.
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948) as,
“any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part 1 ; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
Our #1 goal is to stop the New World order with its necessary agenda to delimit and destroy the White Christian Man. It is true that the post-war consensus has lied about the 20th century and those lies will one day, I pray, be exposed as the lies they are, but right now prudence and wisdom requires that our first priority is to insure a future for our white Christian children and grandchildren. The White man cannot continue to be a light to the nations if he continues to be extinguished.
I was going to ask your opinion about this whole affair, so I’m glad to see you writing about it here. One thing that I’ve wondered is whether there is a calculated effort by bad actors within and adjacent to the Ogden, Spangler, et al. ranks enticing them into focusing more on the Hitler/National Socialist identification because they know it will create division and distraction from the more immanent problems. Instead of being able to build coalitions to address immanent threats, they expend their energies on secondary or irrelevant issues. I’ve been watching a documentary called The MLK Project and it exposes (as I’m sure you could comment on in greater detail) how much communists worked within the KKK and Civil Rights Movements to foment racial hatred and violence because it allowed them to manipulate both populations, inculcating Communist ideas and ceding power or control in pro-Communist direction (or at least wasting power on secondary or irrelevant fronts).
What do you think?
Hello Joshua,
Good to hear from you.
It’s funny that you should post this because I just finished talking to my wife about this very thing. I told her that if it were the case that real Nazis were trying to make inroads to the Reformed population, what is transpiring now is the way I would go about doing it. The publication by Cody Justice of “Positive Christianity” books was just nuts. I’ve told him that. Yes, one may find shards of truth in “Positive Christianity,” but on the whole it is dreadful.
I do think, per my post, that there are energies that are being wasted and I do think the result of all this will be further division in the Christian Nationalism movement. I, for one, can’t join hands with people I think may actually be trying to pave a way for National Socialism. Of course, creating increasing division is good for those who want Marxist revolution. The more people are divided the easier it is for the revolutionaries, with their own small numbers, to seize control.
I don’t think the Ogden chaps or Spangler or Webbon are bad actors. I may think some of them grifters but I don’t think they are trying to Nazify the Reformed church. I am more likely to think they are just trying to make a easy buck. However, OTOH I would say that those viciously opposed to Kinism/Christian Nationalism are animated by Cultural Marxism even if they are too dumb to realize it.
Then there is the reality that there are at least 5 or 6 versions of Christian Nationalism out there, so I’m not sure if it really will ever get off the ground. The 2K stuff that Wolfe has been pushing lately is just insane. I sometimes wonder which is worse… Wolfe’s 2k or R2k. Fortunately they are fighting with each other weakening each other.
What a time to be alive.
Did I answer your question?
Thanks for your thoughts, and yes, you answered my question.
A colleague of mine was commenting that the Nazi-affinity posturing smacks of the kind of reaction/overreaction human nature has to injustice. When something bad (Naziism/National Socialism) is used as a bludgeon against people whose lives have been ruined by something worse (Marxism/Communism) the persecuted sympathize with the group unjustly used to persecute them. There is a human tendency for men unjustly treated to gather other unjustly treated people unto themselves–like David gathering the distressed, indebted, and embittered men under Saul’s rule (1 Sam 22); or Absalom gathering begrudged men under David’s rule (2 Sam 15). There seems to be a way to do this righteously and a way to do it unrighteously.
Unfortunately even if those mentioned (Ogden guys, Spangler, Webbon) aren’t themselves bad actors, they don’t look like Davids, either. The scolders of these will only drive more grieved men away from them and into churches and communities where Hitler-sympathy is welcome. Worse, the scolders will likely feel justified that they have “exposed” what the people who leave “really are,” when what has often happened is they have driven away people who might otherwise have been faithful cobellegirents.
It will be up to local pastors, elders, and wise men to deal with the issues level-headedly rather than in response to social media storms.
Joshua,
I think we will reach a point where level headedness will be in short supply. The battle lines will be drawn. Splits in denominations will occur. Either that or young men are just going to depart from the Church.
Right now my sympathies remain with a Christian Nationalism that eschews both the National Socialism Edge Lords as well as the Cultural Marxism that now exists in the formerly white hat NAPARC denominations. This likely means that, once again, I’ll be on a very sparsely island. I must admit that right now I loathe the NAPARC types far more than I do the National Socialism types.
My preference of course is a Reconstructionist Rushdoony like Christian Nationalism.
Currently there are 5 or 6 versions of CN being offered up. The 2K types (Stephen Wolfe Nationalism) make my skin crawl and I find that completely inconsistent, what w/ it’s Thomistic Natural Law theory.
Oh well… I reckon all of this makes life interesting.
That’s good you don’t see the Odgen guys or Webbon as bad actors.
The truth is, a lot of far right political stuff turned out to be true, and I think Webbon and Odgen has been one of the best at bringing nuance so people don’t go off the rails, but deal with the true information (like I do believe many wealthy Jews are trying to wipe out European populations, that’s just kind of obvious at this point and when boomers scold young White men as they are being persecuted, it’s just making many young men feel they aren’t welcome at church anymore.
It feels like most American churches are sort of race communists/globalists from years of MLK brainwashing, when MLK wasn’t really trying to make some race blind utopia, but was trying to get Europeans to stop defending themselves (as Jewish communists propped up MLK for this purpose).
The key is being able to say all this without letting an obsessing about hating entire groups of people take over, but also looking after your own people. We can’t let savages overtake the US and Europe, but it’s also not wise for young men to spend all day thinking about these topics online where it becomes toxic and they become bitter, when there’s still beauty all around them, I’ve started gardening a lot, and avoid social media now for this reason, but I understand the Jews are trying to eliminate our people and see us as Esau in this Jacob vs Esau battle that they see as playing out in patterns in all of human history, which they see as giving justification for deception (as Jacob deceived Esau and it was seen as just), and that we always will hate them (as Mark Levin said, “it’s in the European dna”), as that’s what they are taught from birth, and it’s why they believe Europeans must be wiped out.
This all must be able to be openly said, and for churches to realize this is coming from a place of careful analysis and not blind hatred towards anyone. Some of the people who taught me most of this topic, were Jewish converts to Christianity who told me how it was for them growing up, especially in mystical Chabad type sects, the ones with a lot of political power, ties to the old Jewish mafia, etc…
Now boomer bureaucrats keep shaming everyone as “kinists” like Marxists with this mindset of the 1960’s that they are battling “racism” and it’s tragic as they have been trained to sabotage their own people.
Hello Jim,
Thanks for the insightful comments.
I don’t necessarily think Ogden or Webbon as bad actors though I also do not think they have thought through all this as well as they might. Webbon’s platforming of an English Catholic who affirms Trent is certainly NOT the kind of Christian Nationalism I envision and the Ogden chaps have, in the recent past, chastened someone who was promoting the very things they seem to be promoting now. As such, it leaves me a little bit skeptical
You speak of the “Boomer Bureaucrats,” but forgive me if I notice that most of the men leading this charge against Kinists are Generation X types and even Millennials. Sure, there are some gray headed boomers voting for all this but many of the idiot clergy leading the charge are not Boomers.
Thanks again for your interaction. And I agree that we have a Bagel problem.
I can see there are still so many widespread misconceptions about National Socialism. (Just one example: they were NOT collectivists. Further, “Aktion T-4” can best be understood as an example of “triage” — also practiced by all of the liberal democracies — rather than as a final solution to exterminate undesirables.
Accordingly, I commend Cody Justice and Sacra Press for publishing the book on Positive Christianity, as well as all the offerings from Antelope Hill. Nothing is more offensive to our enemies than the truth. Agree or disagree, but don’t remove historical first person accounts from the field of inquiry.
“Every thinking human being is a Revisionist—Revisionism is nothing but a method, a heuristic principle with which to construct one’s world view. Opinions are constantly revised through a free flow of information. Only encrusted minds cannot absorb new information, and so, moral responsibility does not come to the fore. Then citizens like me are arrested in a private discussion and thrown into prison.”
Dr. Fredrick Toben, ‘Where Truth is No Defence’