Below is duplicated an e-mail I received from a very intelligent and young professional woman who claims Christ as her savior. All of her education has been spent in State sponsored schools.
Below I interact with her response to my challenging her on her intent to vote for Obama. The conversation came in the context of challenging her on abortion.
Believe it or not, abortion is not the only murder that America condones.
What other murder does America condone? Are you thinking of the death penalty?
Still, even if America does condone other murder why would the existence of murder in other areas justify voting for someone who advocates murder in the one area of policy where more legalized murders happen by far then in any other area?
You really need to explain your reasoning here if only for your own clarity.
Personally, I value the ability of a person to choose what they would do rather then legislate morality that would not accomplish the goal of turning people toward Jesus– which is what will really affect change.
I agree that what really will affect change is seeing people converted by the Gospel. But such a agreement between us here does not mean that we vote for those who will implement policy completely contrary to God’s revealed word. God’s Word teaches, “Thou Shalt Not Murder.” How do you justify voting for somebody who so completely murders as Obama?
Second, it is not possible to not legislate morality. All legislation is, by definition, a legislation of morality. If people decide not to legislate against a certain behavior they are pronouncing it moral. If people decide to legislate against a certain behavior then they are pronouncing its opposite behavior is moral. All legislation is, by definition, a legislation of morality.
If you were to be consistent on this score you would have to oppose any laws forbidding murder or kidnapping or pedophilia because it is legislating morality. Do you oppose such laws? And if you do not oppose those laws which legislate morality why do you oppose legislation against abortion? Laws against murder, kidnapping and pedophilia do not turn people toward Jesus and yet if I were to guess you would think it insane if legislators suddenly started saying, “We value the ability of a person to choose what they would do rather then legislate morality that would not accomplish the goal of turning people toward Jesus– which is what will really affect change.”
It’s not only about abortion. It is also about alleviating … read more poverty, about standing up for the rights of people in America who do without healthcare, who have to choose between heating their homes or paying their rent or for gasoline to go to work. I believe it is the job of the government to provide basic services like healthcare and subsidized education because those things are a right, not a privilege.
It’s not only about the slaughter of 1.3 million people every year? I bet that each one of the slaughtered 1.3 million people would beg to differ with your analysis.
Second, health care is no more a right then owning a three bedroom house in the suburbs. Show me in the Constitution or in the Bible where health care is a human right. Now, certainly we need to do all we can to make health care affordable but socializing health care will make quality health care more difficult to obtain for non poor people while doing nothing to improve the lot of poor people. Your good intentions are getting in the way of reality.
Third, you are completely entitled to believe that it is the role of the Government to serve as the Nanny but it would be nice if people like you could show where in the constitution that right comes from. Further, it would be nice if people of your persuasion could realize that nothing is ever free. It would be nice if you realized that for every freebie the government gives away somebody else working a real job has to pay for it. It would be nice if your realized that every dollar you advocate being stolen in order that people may have their “rights” satisfied is a dollar that somebody else doesn’t have to satisfy some of the things they might think are rights.
Fourth, your reasoning does not hold. If it is wrong to legislate morality because the legislating of it won’t turn people to Jesus then why are you advocating that legislators should legislate freebies for people. Certainly, you can’t believe that the morality legislation that you are supporting is going to turn them to Jesus. In case you are the statistics 40 years after the great society are very against you.
Finally, I hope you realize that what you’ve said is that making sure that people can live off of other people’s hard work is more important then making sure that 1.3 individuals are not slaughtered annually.
It is about paying down the national debt so that my children and grandchildren will not have to pay for the mistakes of this administration.
I agree that the Bush administration has been horrid, but the national debt cannot be uniquely laid at his feet. Such a policy goes back 70 years and it is a policy that both parties have pursued with vigor. Indeed, I agree with you so much that I am not voting for either of the major parties.
There will always be a divide between what I believe and what exists because we live in a fallen world. As it is, I vote Obama.
Yes, there will always be a divide and as long as you remain disobedient to Christ by voting for child killers the divide will never get any smaller. The fact that we live in a fallen world gives you no excuse to perpetuate that fallen(ness).
below is a link that you may choose to ignore on the issue of abortion. It is written by a Princeton academic.
http://theologica.blogspot.com/2008/10/robert-p-george-voting-for-most-extreme.html
This is why we must hold and claim to Sola Scriptura! I have personally lived out the life she is trying to “save” me from for the last 10 years and I say no thanks!
“It is also about alleviating … read more poverty, about standing up for the rights of people in America who do without healthcare, who have to choose between heating their homes or paying their rent or for gasoline to go to work.”
Please, please, please STOP standing up for my “rights”. You are only making things worse and are advocating *STEALING* from my children in order to do this.
I may not have insurance and it may take me a little longer to pay my medical bills. I even may have to feed my kids rice and beans for every meal or leave the heater off a little bit longer in the fall, but my God has never once forsaken my household. We have never once been in need for something He did not provide for us.
As a Christian, you have a responsibility to obey Christ’s commands, not do as you “feel” is right. Try starting with ‘Thou Shalt Not Steal’, ‘Thou Shalt Not Covet’, or even ‘If a man does not work, he does not eat’.
Amen Nickey!
I get frustrated because her type of thinking is so prevalent.